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Post by Ex on Oct 2, 2018 22:56:35 GMT -5
I found the combat perfectly fine. You shoot the monsters a couple times, then walk up to them and stomp on them to make sure they don't get up Which works OK when it's just you versus one monster. When you're getting ganged up on, trying to aim your weapon strikes is less than ideal. Melee combat is weak, bullets are very limited, that stuff combined with a slow combat system wasn't fun for me. Yes I knew about stomping on monsters. I would stomp, unless I was getting mauled by two other enemies, all while trying to get the game to register my stomp in the first place. Most of the monsters you have to fight don't respawn Outdoor enemies respawn constantly. Indoor enemies respawn randomly. That was my experience. From that thread: "Respawns in Silent Hill are randomized. Sometimes an enemy will respawn and sometimes it won't. If you kill and enemy and exit the room then, upon re-entry if he hasn't respawned then he will never respawn. Additionally if he does respawn you can kill him, leave the room and re-enter and there is also a random chance of the respawning enemy respawning again."That's what my experience was like, damn monsters always respawned. BTW respawning enemies is a series staple, according to the official wiki: silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/Features_of_Silent_HillThe dutch angles are great, and do a lot for the atmosphere. Of course they're deliberate! First off you misunderstood what I meant by a bad camera in Silent Hill. I wasn't talking about the artistically oblique camera angles, a retro survival horror staple which Silent Hill stole from Resident Evil, which in turn stole the idea from Alone in the Dark, which itself stole the concept from classic horror cinema. No. Not that. I was talking about the realtime moving 3D camera that follows you around. Like when you're in a hallway corner, trying to see the monster attacking you, but you can't, because the camera got pushed up against the wall, and is now staring at the ceiling, while you're being mauled to death. Or like when you're running through the fog, and you want to fight off a dog, but you can't see the dog, because now the camera is stuck behind a building. Or let's say you're tying to pick up an item on the ground, but can't quite see it, because a tree branch is blocking the camera, and the camera is too dumb to make the tree branch transparent, despite the fact Mega Man Legends did that kind of thing years earlier. Legit bad camera stuff like that is what I meant. Not artistic static camera angles.
The main cinematic influence on Silent Hill as a series is Jacob's Ladder. I could buy that only insofar as some of the monster design, and the psychological state of the protagonist. However, when you're in the game world, and suddenly it goes into dark mode, and the walls turn all rusty and red, with a filth and decay veneer, and barbwire and chains stretched all over the place, plus leather bound torture victims decorating the rooms. Dude. That's blatant Hellraiser plagiarism. Just one example:
Team Silent: "We love Clive Barker!"- I feel like SH2 doubles down on everything you enjoyed about SH1, exponentially in some cases. That is my hope sir. The first time I played Silent Hill 2, I did use a strategy guide / it does give me pause to consider how much I might have enjoyed the game had I initially gone through it trying every locked door I'm starting to realize that most folks play adventure and RPG games by default with a strategy guide or walkthrough in tow. Apparently not doing so is the rarity. I never reach for a guide, or walkthrough, unless I'm absolutely stumped. And then I always feel like a weakling for having done so. Maybe that's dumb of me, and is likely rooted in a long story from my childhood. So that's a rare way of thinking I've come to realize. But anyway, I'm betting SH1 and SH2 would have been rather less smooth experiences had you not used a walkthrough for them. Certainly so in the case of SH1. Eh it's okay. I've felt the way you do about SH2 about some other games. I once wrote a multi-page thesis explaining the existential symbolism behind Shadow of the Colossus. It's always tempting to assign personal meaning behind vague things. That whole proper art asks the question but never tells the answer thing. I'll just say our curator this month over at RB's TR, he really misses that forest for a few stumps he's dead set to triumphantly shout from. He's also one of the proponents of the theory stating old survival horror games subverted the player via intentional inadequate design. He couldn't be more wrong of course. But who wants to argue with a paper tiger gorilla. All I'm going to say is that I'm very skeptical about Ex liking SH2, based off the list of issues he has with the first. I promise I will give SH2 a fair and unprejudiced chance, divorced of my feelings for its predecessor. I don't know how to steer him back on the correct path though, I just don't see this genre being for him. Huh? Is Silent Hill it's own genre? Just because I didn't enjoy Silent Hill 1 doesn't mean I don't like survival horror. Here's a few genre entries I can remember beating and enjoying: Alone in the Dark (original) Alone in the Dark 2 Cold Fear Manhunt
ObsCure ObsCure II
Parasite Eve
Parasite Eve II
Penumbra: Overture REmake Resident Evil 2 Resident Evil 4 Resident Evil 5 Resident Evil 6
Resident Evil Revelations S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Sweet Home
System Shock 2 The Last of Us
The Suffering Yomawari Night Alone I'm forgetting plenty of others surely. Also I've beaten lots of horror adventure, and horror retro action games. I enjoy horror games in all shapes and sizes. Just not badly designed ones like the original Silent Hill.
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Post by Ex on Oct 2, 2018 22:59:37 GMT -5
does anybody know of a game based on a horror movie that's genuinely good? Preferably HRG-compliant? A lot of people swore this was great when it released: It's a 2002 release, also came out on Xbox and PC. I've not played The Thing myself to know if it's actually good. But I saw a lot of very positive reviews for it during its day.
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Post by Sarge on Oct 2, 2018 23:06:12 GMT -5
So, I know there are the usual horror suspects in the platforming genre, but are there any really good ones y'all could think of that have that really oppressive atmosphere in a 2D platformer context? My brain is shot right now.
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Post by nullPointer on Oct 3, 2018 0:24:29 GMT -5
I don't know if it helps or hinders the cause, but show me a list of the 'greatest horror games of all time' that doesn't contain Silent Hill 2. Now show me a similar list that actually contains Silent Hill (1). I think that's the sort of disparity we're talking about between these two games. (And don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are examples of each, but undoubtedly there's a pretty clear trend). Again I'm a fan of both games, but Silent Hill 2 was lightning in a bottle. The series never achieved those heights before or since (despite some solid titles along the way). Critical consensus isn't everything, particularly on a forum like this, but at the same time ... 'taint nothin' neither. I don't know if that helps alleviate any concerns of sequel-itis Ex but I figured it was worth pointing out. So, I know there are the usual horror suspects in the platforming genre, but are there any really good ones y'all could think of that have that really oppressive atmosphere in a 2D platformer context? My brain is shot right now. Man ... I can think of a few, but none of them are HRG compliant! (and all of them are sort of 'indie artsy fartsy' to a greater or lesser extents ... buuut, if we're going down that rabbit hole anyway, this is another one that's worth a look; it's 2D but not a platformer) Surely there are some good old school platformers that meet this criteria though right!?
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Post by Ex on Oct 3, 2018 0:58:14 GMT -5
are there any really good ones y'all could think of that have that really oppressive atmosphere in a 2D platformer context? A few ideas off my head... Rusty on PC-98. It's above average, and it even has an English fan translation now. If for some crazy reason you haven't played through Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge on Game Boy yet, it's a must play. (Also Hammerin' Harry on GB is decent ghost busting fun.) 8 Eyes on NES is worth looking at. Demon Sword on NES (to an extent, you fight demons at least) is also worth looking at. Splatterhouse 2 is very good, and does have occasional lite-platforming. Mystic Defender on Genesis kinda works? toei knows more there than I. Nosferatu on SNES might be good if you hack the timer out of it. Not exactly oppressive, but I've read positive reviews for Porky Pig's Haunted Holiday on SNES. Also Youkai Buster - Ruka no Daibouken on SFC is supposedly good, but it's more lighthearted fighting ghost stuff, nothing serious. That's all I've got this late at night. I'll bet there's some fun arcade games that fit this bill.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 2:04:18 GMT -5
does anybody know of a game based on a horror movie that's genuinely good? Preferably HRG-compliant? I've not played The Thing myself to know if it's actually good. But I saw a lot of very positive reviews for it during its day. It's an all right game. It starts off pretty great as it actually has team mechanics reminiscent of the movie: having your buddy start making weird noises from behind you while you're in the dark is never a good thing, but it's particularly bad when you turn around and you see tentacles coming out of his body. However, towards the end it turns more into an action game and the final boss fight is just laughable. I didn't exactly like Alien Trilogy, but Alien Resurrection might be good? I generally heard good things about the Evil Dead games, too.
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Post by toei on Oct 3, 2018 3:17:20 GMT -5
I'd say Splatterhouse 1 & 2 take their horror themes more seriously than any other 8 or 16-bit side-scroller. There's a lot of other games in the genre with a horror setting, but it works more as an aesthetic than as an attempt to really scare you. Splatterhouse 3's cutscenes are effective, but it's a non-linear beat-'em-up, not a platformer. I don't think 2D games can pull Silent Hill-level atmosphere, because you need the greater immersion of 3D.
Speaking of which, anybody here played Soundless Mountain II? It's a 2D demake of SH2, but it's only about 15 minutes long. I thought it was pretty cool to mess around with, though I wish it'd been a full game (the vid contains spoilers for Silent Hill 2):
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 12:25:31 GMT -5
Clive Barker's Jericho [2007] for the PC Jericho was developed by MercurySteam and released for PC, PS3 and Xbox 360 in 2007. MercurySteam is a Spanish company founded by former members of Rebel Act Studios ( Severance: Blade of Darkness), that would go on to develop Castlevania: Lord of Shadows (bleh) and Metroid: Samus Returns. Just like every other game they developed, Jericho runs on their in-house Mercury Engine, although many players seem to mistake it for one of the first games to use the Unreal Engine 3. Flattering but not surprising: the game looks quite good. Jericho is a seven-man team belonging to the Occult Warfare branch of the US Army: the group was originally created in the 30s to counteract Nazi Germany's own efforts to discover and use occult relics. The team gets dropped among the ruins of Al Khali: a fictional Sumerian city located somewhere in the Middle East, where a former member of Jericho went rogue and is trying to awaken an ancient evil entity known as the Firstborn. The first being God created before being unceremoniously set aside in favor of mankind. The city is actually a prison of sort for the creature and it's called the Box. Each time some crazy people tried to breach the prison and free the Firstborn throughout history, the Box absorbed the city as it was at the time the breach occurred. That means Jericho actually has to go back in time and fight its way through four layers of the city: a Nazi-occupied Al-Khali where the SS were looking for ancient artifacts during WW2, the Middle Ages with the disastrous Children's Crusade, a decadent Roman province and finally the original Sumerian temple. An interesting story concept which actually works great for the gameplay, too: there's a good variety in the environments and enemy types throughout the entire game. Admittedly, I didn't think much of the first couple of hours, but things really started to click with me as Jericho went back in time and I got used to how each individual character plays. Jericho usually gets mentioned as a tactical FPS, but if you go into the game expecting something like Rainbow Six or even Republic Commando, you'll be sorely disappointed. There's not much in the way of giving orders to your team. The tactic aspects come just from choosing which team member to play as, preferably one whose weapons and special skills are the most suited to take down the enemy you're currently facing. Often, you'll absolutely need to play as a certain team member in order to advance or gain the upper hand in a boss fight. At times, Jericho gets separated and you'll have to use each member to their utmost potential in order to make it out alive. It's weird, but it feels more like a party-based ARPG rather than a tactical FPS. The Jericho members themselves are quite a motley crew. A group of misfits. They go from a dual-pistol-wielding Texan pastor to a ninja-esque woman who can perform blood magic to a hacker girl who is a math genius but suffers from slight autism and several phobias. It's not the most professional bunch, but each of them does have an interesting background and unique skills. The interactions among them are convincing, even if some of the writing is a bit schlocky. ( Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition! or You just got your ass kicked by a girl.) As already mentioned, the game has a slow start and some of the enemy encounters just go on and on. Enemies will keep spawning from awhile before you can move on and some of these sections are just overly long. It's especially bad at the beginning, when the environments and enemies aren't that interesting. The game also has QTEs. Who likes QTEs? Nobody does! Luckily, there's only a handful of them, so it's tolerable. Your team AI is pretty bad, but it works well enough for this sort of arcade-y gameplay. Again, this is not a tactical game. Aside from that, Jericho features a well-made checkpoint system and no quicksaving, which is fine with me. Once you get the hang of it, the game is quite easy. All in all, I really enjoyed my time with Jericho. It's one of those games that got better for me the more I played it. Usually the opposite is the case, so that's a relief. Apparently, the gaming press didn't think much of the game, which is a shame. The ending is a bit abrupt and MercurySteam stated they'd have liked to make a sequel to Jericho if the game was well received, but that's probably not going to happen now. Well, at least Samus Returns did well and the company is still alive and kicking. Good for them.
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Post by Xeogred on Oct 3, 2018 17:34:41 GMT -5
Now that looks like a goodie. I always forget about that one. Ex : I think you're focusing way too much on the combat or for whatever reason had some weird pitfalls with it. This is first I've heard about respawning enemies because I never noticed or it was never an issue in the entire franchise for me and the various times I've replayed SH2-3. You generally want to save guns only for boss battles and most of Silent Hill is melee based, compared to RE. I can picture maybe a room or two with some nurses or something in SH1 where you get ganged up on but man... other than that I'm drawing a blank. The town portions themselves are wide open, I do remember the flying birds/bats whatever in SH1 being annoying, but it's a complete waste of time to fight those or the dogs. In the town portions you just want to run and you eventually lose them. The bugs were all over in the sewers, but I think you could instantly step on those. Fighting everything in these games is a waste of time and totally unnecessary, I felt the same about System Shock 2 since enemies respawned frequently in that one too. SS1 on the other hand was atrocious with this element and basically becomes Doom when you have to backtrack some sections. As for SH, it's a living breathing world and you never know when monsters are going to spawn or despawn, where the ones you ran away from might turn up again, etc. I find that to be part of its charm. No way in heck do I play these for the combat but sure, it's there and unavoidable in a lot of parts. I've just never seen anyone have such a strong issue with it in the first, lol. I know the boss battles can be annoying though, but they're less frequent and better in the sequels. Just maybe try a different approach with the sequels or something... I'm only dragging this out because the sequels, especially SH2-3 still play very much like SH1. Hope they work better for you.
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Post by Ex on Oct 3, 2018 18:02:38 GMT -5
I give this game 8 telekinetic lesbian snipers out of 10. I'm glad to see a positive review for Jericho. It's been sitting on my 360 shelf for a long time, daring me to play it. I tend to mentally associate this game with a 2008 horror FPS called Legendary, even though the two aren't actually related. I think it's just because both are horror FPS that were panned upon release. Just maybe try a different approach with the sequels or something I will try not to fight enemies unless I absolutely have to. I just hope I don't miss important item drops as a result (like keys for example).
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