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Post by Sarge on Dec 7, 2018 23:52:40 GMT -5
I've heard rumblings along those lines, too. I do need to give it a shot. I've always used SSF over the years, but it has some quirks with a few big titles. (Later versions crash at the very end of Panzer Dragoon Saga, and the Camelot games have some off-key instruments that butcher the music.)
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Post by toei on Dec 8, 2018 2:03:02 GMT -5
I've heard rumblings along those lines, too. I do need to give it a shot. I've always used SSF over the years, but it has some quirks with a few big titles. (Later versions crash at the very end of Panzer Dragoon Saga, and the Camelot games have some off-key instruments that butcher the music.) About Panzer Dragoon Saga - I think you need V-Sync or some other option to be on for SSF not to crash at the end of PDS. It sucks cause IIRC there's a long stretch where you can't save at the end, so if you don't expect it, or keep V-Sync off because it's so demanding on your CPU... Same thing happened with Shining Force 3 a few hours into the game. Basically, if you're gonna play a game on SSF, especially a RPG, you better check the compatibility list first and make sure you use the exact version specified. There's a fighting game called Goiken Muyou that crashed on most versions of SSF, and most other Saturn emulators - you had to play it with a specific, very dated beta that didn't allow to stretching in fullscreen mode and had a bit of a motion blur bug. Don't know if Yabause can handle it now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 4:04:37 GMT -5
I was wondering where would you draw the line between JRPGs and 1st person dungeon crawlers with turn-based combat. Games like Shin Megami Tensei I and II have top-down overworld map sections, but most of the time you're exploring dungeons and fighting in first person. I believe the Phantasy Star games also play like that? Would you group these games with FPDCs? Then, there's the first Persona game where you still have overworld map and traditional dungeon sections, but combat is grid-based and you watch your team fighting from above. The next Persona installments would completely drop the first person dungeon exploration. Much like the Digital Devil Saga games or Nocturne, which have overworld map sections and dungeon exploration in third person - even though you do unlock a first person mode after you complete the game once, combat still happens in third person. Not FPDCs. I'd like to hear what requirements you believe a game should fulfill to be considered a FPDC, and possibly even name some of your favorite 1st person dungeon crawlers.
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Post by Sarge on Dec 20, 2018 9:35:30 GMT -5
I think combat has a lot to do with it; I think of the first-person Shin Megami Tensei games as JRPGs. I throw it into the same category as games like Shining the Holy Ark or Arcana. That being said, it still skews a bit "Western" more than those games. Another one that comes to mind for a modern series is Etrian Odyssey, which definitely follows the Wizardry template, although much of the flavor still feels like a traditional JRPG as well.
All that to say that it's tricky to quantify, so maybe that doesn't help a whole lot.
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Post by Ex on Dec 20, 2018 11:09:46 GMT -5
I was wondering where would you draw the line between JRPGs and 1st person dungeon crawlers with turn-based combat. For me the dungeon traversal itself must entirely be in first person, including the combat. The combat obviously has to be turn based if we're talking about "turn based combat". Most Japanese FPDCs use menus for towns, including the Etrian Odyssey series, and all the dungeoning is first person. I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, but those are exceptions, not the norm. There are a lot of high quality Japanese first person dungeon crawlers. Both in the past and in the modern era. Actually the FPDC genre exploded in Japan on the DS, PSP, 3DS, and Vita. The Vita especially has some very impressive FPDCs but obviously they are too new for this board. The most important Japanese FPDCs series of recent time is, as Sarge mentioned, the Etrian Odyssey games. These are very well made FPDCs with amazing OSTs. They are also quite challenging, although more recent series entries allow the user to lower the difficulty to a joke (which most people do unfortunately). But when played at Expert level difficulty, you're in for a true challenge. I own many EO entries, and my only complaint is I'm not a huge fan of the art style. It's all a bit too cutesy for me. But I think the kawaii factor was put into place to serve as an ironic dichotomy to the challenge. Anyway, a few of the EO games are now HRG compliant: Etrian Odyssey and Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard on DS. Their 3DS remakes obviously aren't yet. Here's some footage of the first game on DS (this guy is fairly far into the game): If you want to go in depth about Japanese FPDCs, I think that deserves its own thread.
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Post by toei on Dec 20, 2018 15:24:54 GMT -5
@tsumuri Only the first Phantasy Star has first-person dungeons. The rest are seen from top-down. For me the distinguishing features between dungeon-crawler and traditional RPG is travel (ie from town to town), focus on story, and length/intensity of the dungeons. The Japanese / Western thing is not really pertinent here. Shining in the Darkness is 100% a dungeon-crawler - there's one dungeon with tons of floors and several sections, one hub town, just a little story and character interaction. Shining the Holy Ark could go either way, as the non-dungeon elements are more developed, just like Arcana, but the dungeons are still deeper, longer, and more elaborate than is standard, and it's still in first-person. Etrian Odyssey and all those other DS games (Class of Heroes or whatever it's called, etc.) are dungeon crawlers. Mainline Megami Tensei and Phantasy Star 1 are also hybrids.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 4:06:28 GMT -5
For me the distinguishing features between dungeon-crawler and traditional RPG is travel (ie from town to town), focus on story, and length/intensity of the dungeons. The Japanese / Western thing is not really pertinent here. Interesting, that does make things clearer for me. By that logic, Megami Tensei I and II for the Famicom as well as Strange Journey seem to be the only actual dungeon crawlers related to the SMT series. Maybe If... too, can't tell as I haven't played it yet. I definitely want to focus on actual dungeon crawlers rather than hybrids if I'm going to play a bunch of them eventually. Lots of great dungeon crawlers for the NDS - Etrian Odyssey, The Dark Spire, Orcs vs Elves, etc. I won't hijack this thread any further, but thanks for the answers.
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