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Post by anayo on Aug 4, 2019 11:00:51 GMT -5
Bloodstained Curse of the Moon came out under the notion that Konami had abandoned Castelvania Symphony of the Night and someone needed to bring it back. I think I mostly share the sentiment, but I also noticed my backlog of modern games has a lot of Metroidvanias in it. Such as:
Timespinner
Hollow Knight
Wonder Boy: the Dragon's Trap
These are available but I don't own them:
Xeodrifter
Axiom Verge
There was a time when the metroidvania was an endangered species. Arguably indie and lower budget titles have brought it back. This is a good turn of events, but it also gives me some misgivings about my backlog. When I played Metroid and Zelda for NES very close to one another it fatigued me. I foresee a similar outcome if I try to take on Timespinner, Hollow Knight, Wonder Boy, and Bloodstained one after the other. Of course, it probably doesn't help that I prefer action games over adventure games full of quests and exploration at this point in my life, and not everyone's tastes are quite like this.
So, what do the rest of you think? Do you agree that the metroidvania genre has been restored to acceptable numbers? If not, how many more titles would it take? If so, do you think the genre runs any risk of over saturation with all of its quality titles available to play today?
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Post by Xeogred on Aug 4, 2019 12:39:11 GMT -5
I don't think this genre was ever endangered, it's Nintendo and Konami who dropped the ball when mainstream developers were allergic to 2D games for awhile in the mid 2000's outside of handhelds. But from Cave Story and on, this has been one of the most popular indie genres. However I'm really picky about them and some new ones mix in rogue elements or whatnot, which turns me away even more. Bloodstained RoTN scratched a classic itch that I really appreciated.
Shadow Complex (2009) was probably one of the more mainstream ones that popped up back on XBLA. It's decent but I think there's better options nowadays.
I recommend Xeodrifter (very short) and Axiom Verge. Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight is very good too. Blaster Master Zero was cool and I'm excited there's a sequel I'll check out eventually.
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Post by Ex on Aug 4, 2019 21:14:12 GMT -5
>So, what do the rest of you think?
I don't recall ever being concerned that the genre was endangered. However one of the greatest expressions of the genre, the Igavania, was endangered. Bloodstained was a heralded event because it brought Igavania back.
>Do you agree that the metroidvania genre has been restored to acceptable numbers?
I think the non-linear exploratory platformer genre is bloated in modern times, mostly by indie releases.
>do you think the genre runs any risk of over saturation with all of its quality titles available to play today?
Yes, much as the "roguelike" genre became over-saturated (in the indie realm), "metroidvanias" are also over-represented. That isn't to say there hasn't been some great releases in the past few years. But the majority are mediocre at most. I certainly don't get excited anymore when I see yet another indie produced "metroidvania".
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Post by Sarge on Aug 4, 2019 22:00:13 GMT -5
For a while there, it was endangered. The Igavania was one of the few places that type of game was being made, and without those, it was pretty hard to get your fix. However, the gap has definitely been filled now. Sure, there are some iffy exploratory platformers out there, but there are also excellent ones. But one doesn't have to be desperate as in years past to put up with mediocre titles when there are great ones to play.
Do I wish some folks would dial it back? Sure. But I also think the formula is very solid, so it makes sense to follow it. And someone, whether through sheer effort or a bit of an accident, will make a good one with that many folks trying their hand at the genre. I've thought about giving it a go myself, but I need to start a lot simpler if I'm going to make a game.
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Post by Xeogred on Aug 4, 2019 22:27:43 GMT -5
I think Ghost Song might be endangered: Kickstarted back in 2013.  |
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Post by Ex on Aug 5, 2019 1:17:17 GMT -5
I think Ghost Song might be endangered: Kickstarted back in 2013. Ha! I was one of the paying Kickstarter backers for that project. Matt still drops updates about once a month-ish for it. I sure would like to see the game come to completion. Turns out making a quality metroidvania all by yourself is um, not easy. Not everybody can be Joakim Sandberg. |
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Post by Xeogred on Aug 5, 2019 9:52:32 GMT -5
Joakim Sandberg - dang, that guy puts in the work. Are his other games outside of Iconoclasts worth checking out?
Axiom Verge was a sole project by Tom Happ as well. Coding, artist, and music.
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Post by Ex on Aug 5, 2019 10:35:38 GMT -5
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Post by hooplehead on Nov 2, 2019 20:32:21 GMT -5
Didn't know what other thread to share this in, but here's a great video analyzing the world design of Hollow Knight. Hollow Knight is the only modern Metroidvania I've played so far that I'd say can stand with the likes of Symphony of the Knight, Zero Mission, and Super Metroid. While I'm not the biggest fan of Mark Brown, as sometimes he gets a little monomaniacally focused on some aspect that he overlooks a game's other strenghts and weaknesses that may be relevant, I do think he hits the nail on the head here (he also is sometimes flat out wrong or makes a big deal out of some design thing despite it being pretty obvious and basic stuff).
This does spoil the entire game, so I only recommend it to those of you who've played it. In case you haven't played it, I think Hollow Knight is a game that does a great job of balancing what makes Metroid great with what makes Symphony of the Night great (and quite a bit of Dark Souls), all the while still being very much its own thing. It is a massive game, though, especially if you want to get the good ending and play through the free DLC (took me a little over 40 hours).
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Post by Jameson on Nov 2, 2019 21:24:11 GMT -5
hoopleheadCan't say I really like this genre, but Hollow Knight is really good. Absolutely agreed on your statement about placing it up there with SotN and Metroid.
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