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Post by Sarge on Sept 9, 2019 13:39:02 GMT -5
It didn't dawn on me until I saw a few scattered posts, but today is the 20th anniversary of the Dreamcast launch here in the states. As far as I know, we don't have a Dreamcast thread, so let this be it!
Anyway, got any great memories from the Dreamcast? Do you still have yours? What are your favorite games?
My quick story: I didn't get a Dreamcast until slightly later (it was still "viable", as it were, though), but ended up getting a real Sega Genesis and Sega CD on the Dreamcast release date. I bought it from a classmate of my brother's.
Also, I bought my DC used from a friend of our's brother, and I bought Grandia II before I even had the system in hand just to make sure it didn't get sold beforehand. $20 in Walmart, so not too shabby!
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Post by toei on Sept 9, 2019 16:18:26 GMT -5
The time period when the Dreamcast launched corresponds to the period where I basically quit video games for a few years, after entering secondary school (which is equivalent to middle high & high school for yall). It wasn't a conscious decision, it just happened. I got more into music and hanging out. The irony is that I followed everything about the upcoming launch during the summer leading up to it, and read the first Japanese import reviews of Sonic Adventure and all the early game previews for everything from Grandia 2 to Seventh Cross. That change was very sudden, since the school year starts at the beginning of September, and the Dreamcast launched just a few days later. In the end I didn't play any DC games until maybe 10 years later through emulation.
It's a bit ironic to me that it's so many people's favorite Sega system, since it really only had half of a life span. In retrospect, its library doesn't have anywhere near the Genesis' depth, and arguably not even the Saturn's, but it had a number of memorable games nonetheless in this short span of time, and the quality average, all in all, seems quite high. It was also the first system of its generation, which is bound to have impressed people, and its games had a certain look to them that gives them a particular identity. Shenmue looked exceptional for years after its release, thanks to its incredible amount of details, while Grandia 2 was one of the rare games to figure out how to make 3D anime look good before cell shading really came out. It was also probably the last console to have such a strong arcade presence and feel to its library.
Last I checked, Dreamcast emulation still had graphics bugs, though the games run well. One day I need to play through that Cammy shooter and Zombie Revenge. I'm still disappointed that neither SpikeOut nor SlashOut ever got the DC ports they deserved.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 9, 2019 17:06:35 GMT -5
Yeah, the Dreamcast really had a mind-blowing look compared to the N64/PSX. Of course, the PS2 being on the horizon didn't help it, but it even compared well when the PS2 came out. I definitely remember folks pointing at Dead or Alive 2, and how the DC version looked better. The PS2 was certainly the more powerful system, but it took a lot of effort to get that power out of it, whereas the Dreamcast was built with nice off-the-shelf parts that made it easy to tap the power, but probably in the end kept it from competing in the end.
The lack of a DVD drive probably hurt it more, though. I remember so many people snagging PS2s because they could use it for both a DVD player (they weren't cheap then!) and a game console. (Well, that, and the utter failure of the Saturn over here.)
It's a very arcade-focused system, which has its strengths and weaknesses. I wish it had more RPGs, but at least we got some great ones with Skies of Arcadia and Grandia II.
Cannon Spike is a pretty fun game, actually. I was lucky enough to snag a copy back in the day. I watched a speed run of it the other day, and they used Arthur, who is apparently ridiculously overpowered. I think I've used all the characters, though, including Cammy.
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Post by toei on Sept 9, 2019 17:18:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I played some Cannon Spike some years ago but I never made it that far. I figure now that I've beaten some shmups I'd probably be able to handle it. I'll stick to Cammy, though. I had a crush on her when I was a kid, though it gave me pause when I read she was supposed to be a clone of Bison's (the hell?).
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Post by Ex on Sept 9, 2019 17:31:53 GMT -5
I didn't know much about the Dreamcast until seeing one in person back in 2000. I was vaguely aware the DC existed around the time it released, but at that time I was 20 years old and financially destitute. Back then I couldn't even begin to be able to afford a new console let alone its games. I was too busy struggling supporting my real life bills and paying (elective) child support. That doesn't mean I didn't get to play the Dreamcast in its time though. Back in early 2000 I was living with a roommate named Kenny. A friend of ours named Clint came over one day and brought his Dreamcast. I don't remember every game Clint brought, but I do know he brought Soul Calibur, Tech Romancer, and Crazy Taxi. I recall the game we all played the most was Soul Calibur, what with it being the masterpiece it is. Kenny was impressed enough that he bought his own Dreamcast shortly after that experience. But unlike Clint's legitimate self, Kenny was all aboard the piracy train. You guys probably know that early model Dreamcasts could be exploited to run GD-ROM dumps burnt to CD-R. Sometimes the dumps would be modified to fit for size differences, and this exploit worked marvelously. Thanks to that, I would occasionally play Dreamcast games with Kenny circa 2000-2002. I don't recall everything we played back then, but I do remember playing various Japanese shmups with him. The game I remember playing the most with Kenny though, was The Last Blade 2: Heart of the Samurai. We put a LOT of time into that one. He was also seriously into Jet Grind Radio, but I didn't care for JGR at all. After 2002 I didn't play Dreamcast for eight years. Around 2010, for reasons I can't recall, I decided to buy a Dreamcast. I bought one for $20 off eBay, and it came in mint shape. It also supported playing burnt CD-Rs. I ended up buying a bunch of accessories for my Dreamcast. Including the official Fishing Controller(which is way funner to use than you might think). Around this time is also when I started dating the woman who became my wife. She didn't have a lot of video game experience back then, so the Dreamcast's arcade sensibilities worked well for our initial multiplayer gaming. I recall she liked Dynamite Cop and Zombie Revenge quite a bit. Although her and I had a lot of fun with multiplayer Dreamcast gaming, I personally didn't find the system to be super satisfying. I say that, because the Dreamcast is a bit lopsided in its genre leanings. The Dreamcast is an arcade lover's console. If you really enjoy games with arcade sensibilities, the Dreamcast is definitely a dream. It's got competent shallow action games galore. However if you're more into deeper gameplay, RPG genres of any sort, or complex strategy - well the Dreamcast isn't the best representation of the more cerebral side of the gaming spectrum. And thus it didn't hold my attention very long in 2010. I did however quite enjoy SEGA Marine Fishing and the weirdness of Seaman. And yes toei Cannon Spike is good fun. Don't take that last paragraph as a knock against the Dreamcast though. There's still lots of games in its library I haven't spent much time with. I sometimes considering doing a "summer of Dreamcast", just to finally go back and knock out some games like Illbleed, Gundam Side Story 0079: Rise from the Ashes, Maken X, and Frame Gride for instance. And ultimately despite the Dreamcast's arcade-leanings, I still respect the system quite a bit. And I do think it's a good looking console in and of itself. The standard controller is kinda funky, but it gets the job done. And how can you not love the VMU? The VMU is so cool. A little Game Boy Jr. shoved right there in your gamepad. The Dreamcast is also a bittersweet reminder of what its parent company used to be. The Dreamcast was the last bastion, the line in the sand, separating the brave and batshit SEGA from the safe and boring "Sega" we have today. PS It's still thinking
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Post by Xeogred on Sept 9, 2019 17:48:04 GMT -5
I think the DVD drive holds a lot of merit, seems like a lot of people held that against the GC as well.
I was ~12 in 1999, so a little younger than others and certainly in no position to have easy access to a DC at the time of its release. However my parents randomly rented one for a birthday party (October for me so that adds up, must have been a month after its release when it was still all the rage). As a kid yeah, it was wild to see in action. Arcade games growing up always looked better visually than anything you got on consoles. Well the DC was the first time it looked like an equal playing field was reached. I think the smooth framerate is something that seriously impressed me and others. I didn't know any of that tech jargon back then, but I'm pretty sure a lot of DC titles hit a smooth 60FPS.
Funny thing is I hated Sonic Adventure and always joke about that, seeing Sonic in some realistic looking city with humans and dolphins turned me away instantly, even at 12-13 years old. The wow factor slipped away from that one pretty quickly. But I think my parents rented that one and some other stuff, maybe Hydro Tunder and Crazy Taxi if they were release titles? I bet the DC had a better launch lineup than the PS2's. I remember it was cool seeing some N64/PSX ports on the DC, like Tony Hawk and stuff. I was definitely envious of people who owned those versions.
I think I recall seeing demo kiosks of Blue Stinger and Quake 3 at some EB Games too. Might be mixing those games up with others, but it was something like those.
I don't even know if you could say the DC had "half" the life span of the other consoles that gen, didn't it only barely survive one full year? Pretty crazy.
In retrospect I find the DC to be kind of odd. It's a cute system and the fan fever some people have around it is kind of amusing. I feel like everything I'd ever want to play on it I could get on other systems though at this point. Never liked that controller much either. And the DC I do have around thesedays sounds like a jet engine last time I used it. Love that bootup sound and the look of the system though. I hated seeing Sega's demise in the console business though. Ironically, Halo changed my world and I was an Xbox fan during that gen. But a part of my brain still registers Sega as one of the big three. It's weird to consider Xbox's timeframe in the console business is about as long if not longer than Sega's at this point. 20 years give or take.
Sega slipped up one too many times though along the way but it's always interesting to wonder where we'd be if history was written differently. The 32x was crap, Sega CD probably didn't do much in any territory I'd guess, the US completely bombed the Saturn's potential in the West and the console was geared more towards 2D design which was being left behind, I think all these past mistakes all came back on them when the DC came out.
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Post by Xeogred on Sept 9, 2019 17:51:45 GMT -5
I sometimes considering doing a "summer of Dreamcast", just to finally go back and knock out some games like Illbleed, Gundam Side Story 0079: Rise from the Ashes, Maken X, and Frame Gride for instance. Well I'm still excited to do an N64 Month for the Retro Club next year. How about a month for the DC now too?
I always forget how easy it was to pirate games on the DC, that probably hurt them a lot too.
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Post by toei on Sept 9, 2019 17:53:49 GMT -5
Xeogred The Dreamcast lasted close to two years and a half in Japan, which is where it matters since that's where most of the games came from. That's about half a console lifespan. In North America, just a bit over a year and a half. It also sold pretty well during that time. It did better than the Game Cube in its first year, for one. It died because the new management had no desire for another console war, and that view must have won out because Sega had had too many recent failures.
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Post by anayo on Sept 9, 2019 18:01:44 GMT -5
This is a commercial for Jak and Daxter I saw when I was 11:
In 2019 we have free smartphone games with graphics and animation better than this. However in 2001 this left me gobsmacked. This was so unbelievably beyond what my N64 could do. 20 years later I still remember that 4 second clip of Daxter saying, "I was right behind you Jak! Really... I was!" This was such a "mic drop" moment for the Playstation 2. I esteemed the PS2 as a very powerful, desirable game machine ever since seeing that commercial.
Here's why I'm blathering on about the Playstation 2: the Dreamcast never had a "Jak and Daxter commercial" moment for me. I don't think they did a very good job marketing its capabilities toward a 9 year old who still wasn't plugged into gaming media, because when I learned of it, my first thought was, "I don't get it. What does the Dreamcast do that the Playstation can't? And didn't Sega have a Sega Saturn? What ever happened to that?" I even saw some of the games at the mall - Sonic Adventure and Ready 2 Rumble Boxing. I thought they looked cool, but not "holy crap I need one of these" cool.
In 2003 I got a Gamecube. Then a little later in 2004 my family and I went on vacation to the beach. While we were out, we found an eclectic overstock store, which for some reason had an entire shelf of brand new Sega Dreamcasts for $15 each. I bought one and took it back to the rental house. As soon as I fired up the demo for Dead or Alive 2 I realized just how dead wrong 9 year old me was.
In 2019, DoR2 looks like sterile plastic. But to a early 2000's teen accustomed to blocky N64 polygons, this was head-turningly beautiful. I was so impressed with the characters' faces. Their lips moved, their eyes blinked, and shadows formed on their cheeks and noses. In N64 games they would often just cut and paste a cruddy thumbnail of a guy's face onto a flat, featureless polygon skull. I remember thinking, "I could have got a Dreamcast instead of a Gamecube and probably been just as impressed."
I played the other demos over and over. Such as:
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater - I played this on Dreamcast before Playstation, so I identify Tony Hawk as a Dreamcast game even though that's not really how it went down in real life. I couldn't get enough of the high score/arcade gameplay and was amazed that this video game had real music in it with guitars, drums, bass, and a vocalist. MDK2 - The graphics in this one didn't wow me, but it had a quirky sense of humor that won me over. I wanted to play the full version, but sadly I never did. Sonic Adventure - I loved that opening stage where you're fleeing from the killer whale. The greens and blues were so soothing and I loved the rock soundtrack. It gave me such an uplifting, optimistic feeling.
Oddly enough, I can't remember playing any full retail Dreamcast games except for Shenmue. I think I bought it from EB Games in autumn of 2004. Today, Shenmue seems like an embryonic version of Grand Theft Auto. But for a high school kid in 2004, Shenmue was flabbergastingly advanced. Everyone had spoken dialog! Everything was so detailed! I'd make Ryo practice martial arts moves in the parking lot, collect capsule toys from vending machines, play Super Hang On at the arcade, and solemnly hunt for the man who killed my father. Then the game dumped on me with a noncommittal cliffhanger ending, and I said, "Screw this." and probably traded it back to EB Games.
I don't dig the Dreamcast very much today because almost all of its great games have been ported somewhere else. But I had so much fun with mine 15 years ago. It's a shame the Dreamcast ended like it did. It deserved better than that.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 9, 2019 18:07:05 GMT -5
The fact that we got what we did considering that short lifespan is nothing short of remarkable. I still think the Dreamcast launch lineup was perhaps the best ever for a console. There was something for everyone.
I mean, look at this list:
-AeroWings -AirForce Delta -Blue Stinger -CART Flag to Flag -Expendable -Hydro Thunder -House of The Dead 2 -Monaco Grand Prix -Mortal Kombat Gold -NFL 2K -NFL Blitz 2000 -Pen Pen TriIcelon -Power Stone -Ready 2 Rumble Boxing -Sonic Adventure -Soulcalibur -TNN Motorsports Hardcore Heat -Tokyo Xtreme Racer -TrickStyle -Marvel vs Capcom -Jet Set Radio
A ton of these games are quality titles. Even the sports!
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