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Post by Ex on Nov 20, 2019 11:59:40 GMT -5
The idea here is to discuss some classic video games (or not-classic video games if you wish) that you've been interested in for a while, but still haven't taken the dive into. What makes you intrigued by them? Why have you not taken the plunge yet? Perhaps others can inform your decision to commit or not, as some of us may have already played what you are considering. - I'll start with: I have been considering playing this old action-RPG (or is it an action-adventure?) for a few months now. I missed it when I was a kid, because I never saw it in any rental stores. I knew it existed due to gaming magazines, but that's about it. I rarely have seen Landstalker discussed on gaming forums - although when it has, it's always been a positive light.
I am a big fan of 8/16-bit action-JRPGs in general, and there's plenty I've not conquered yet. This one in particular seems cool, because it apparently has a larger exploration aspect. Meaning big dungeons and wilderness areas to traverse. That's an assumption, based on videos I've seen.
The reason I have not played Landstalker yet, is because the game incorporates isometric platforming that could be trollish. The attraction display this game runs if you let it sit at the title screen, goes into some really tenuous looking platforming in that regard. I'm not sure if that stuff would be fun, or just incredibly frustrating. So, has anyone around here played this / beaten it? What's your take on Landstalker?
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Post by Sarge on Nov 20, 2019 12:44:12 GMT -5
That's a good one to start with, Ex . It's on my own list. You'd think I'd have finished it by now, but nope. A couple of titles that I'd like to finish one day that come to mind: Brain Lord - Yet another ARPG that you'd think I had finished, but nope. Ogre Battle - A downright classic, but I never beat it. My brother did, though! Robotrek - We talked about this one earlier, and I think it's pretty solid. I just keep forgetting about it! Shadowrun (SNES) - I might actually give this a go with that mouse-control patch/script out there. And here's a weird one for y'all. I have no idea why I still want to play through it, but I do.
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Post by 20thcenturygamer on Nov 20, 2019 12:56:24 GMT -5
The isometric platforming is what it is. You'll fall down holes to lower dungeons levels and have to make your way back up to try again a lot. It's still a cool little game, though. The lighthearted tone really makes it. The whole game is one big humorous caper as you race your rivals to a treasure, not just another angsty JRPG quest to save the world from the evil empire or whatever. I like it a lot, even if I don't like some of the platforming.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 20, 2019 15:27:08 GMT -5
If I remember right, there are no shadows cast, which makes it really tricky to gauge some of the jumps.
I always associate Landstalker and Alundra in my mind... and that was for good reason, given that a good bit of Matrix's staff came from Climax Entertainment. And the art, of course.
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Post by toei on Nov 20, 2019 16:46:01 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Landstalker. The complicated platforming sequence you see in the intro is to establish the character as a kind of fantasy Indiana Jones; most platforming parts in-game are a lot shorter and simpler. The isometric view and the corresponding controls take some time and effort to get used to, but I've always found that people exaggerated the difficulty of the platforming. I could usually get a feel for the jump required just by looking at the platforms, even without shadows. There aren't really that many variations in terms of distance or direction; you can usually get by with just short and long jumps, with just a few somewhere in the middle. This is probably true of most actual platformers of the era, too. But yeah, even that being said, you'll definitely mess up some jumps. Contrary to old-school platformers, though, failing a jump doesn't mean you die, so it's not so bad. Of course, the game focuses more on puzzles, but these are what I'd call "action puzzles", or basically trials; you can usually tell what you need to do at a glance, but it might be difficult to execute. It's definitely an action RPG, by the way, in every way that matters. Compared to A Link To The Past, there are several actual towns and more of a RPG-style story progression. Alundra is the best action RPG ever made, in my opinion, and definitely a continuation of Landstalker's game design, minus the isometry. The story is much more dark, though, to a surprising extent. That town really goes through a lot. In contrast, Landstalker is quite lighthearted and adventurous. Dark Savior on the Saturn is pretty decent and interestingly experimental, but ultimately I think one longer adventure would have been more satisfying than the "parallels" system. Basically, there are several completely distinct routes through the game, depending on the amount of time you take to finish the short prologue. To really understand the story and properly play through the game, you have do all the parallels (they aren't very long, and there's not a lot of redundancy). There is one 3D mine cart level I really, really hated, though. I found it incredibly difficult and annoying, far more than any of the platforming in Landstalker (or Dark Savior, for this matter). Alundra 2 is disliked by some because it switched from 2D to 3D and from a dark mature story to an outright goofy cartoon, but the core gameplay and dungeon design style is still thoroughly solid. Ultimately, I really liked it. The Ladystalker translation is still waiting for the day Ghideon runs out of mediocre mecha games to translate, and Climax Landers, aka Time Stalkers, is actually a pretty good turn-based roguelike in the vein of the Mysterious Dungeons game, except it also acts as a Climax crossover game, with characters from Shining in the Darkness, Landstalker and more. I think it was unjustly maligned because Western console gamers weren't acquainted with roguelikes at the time. I remembered lots of complaints about Levels returning to 1 when you left a dungeon. Finally, some people associate Steal Princess with that whole unofficial series, but that's a mistake. It's purely a puzzle game, divided into short levels - there is no adventure or RPG component, practically no combat, and not much of a story. There was also some short Net Yaroze game that was clearly inspired by that whole spiritual series, but I'd always get stuck in it. It's usually held up as one of the most accomplished Yaroze game, but apparently it's only like 20-minutes long if you know what to do.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 20, 2019 17:41:27 GMT -5
I've played through Alundra 1/2 and Dark Savior myself, and mostly agree with everything you said. Maybe not that Alundra is the best ARPG ever, but it sure is awesome. And as you say, surprisingly dark. I'm with you on Alundra 2 as well. The tone seems to go more toward the goofy, almost reminding me of Tron Bonne and crew in Mega Man Legends, but it plays very well, so I dig it. Dark Savior was one of the first Saturn games I beat, as it came with the Saturn I got off of eBay. It's such an odd, disjointed game because of the parallels, but still an interesting way to handle things. I did do all those parallels, as well. Certainly not a classic like Landstalker or Alundra, but there are worse games to spend your time on. I want Ladystalker to come out as well. Gid, please be done with Super Robot Wars. This did remind me of another game that has stymied me for some time, despite absolutely loving its prequel:
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Post by toei on Nov 20, 2019 18:01:04 GMT -5
Legend of Oasis was one of the first Saturn games I finished, and one I spent a lot of time with, as it was the only Saturn RPG I could find locally at the time along with Virtual Hydlide. I actually called the Sega help line advertised in the manual because I got stuck somewhere after missing a key. It's a pretty complex game, or at least it seemed so to 12/13-year-old me. I really enjoyed both it and Beyond Oasis, their spirit system, and the chunkier, more physical combat.
Got any particular issue with it?
And yeah, the Tron Bonne comparison is on point for Alundra 2, that's exactly the tone it has. I'm pretty sure they went for it due to criticism over the first game's grim story, as it's such a complete 180.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 20, 2019 18:08:34 GMT -5
I put in a decent amount of time, but it plays a bit different from Beyond Oasis, which I thought had some spectacular combat. One of these days, I will give it another go. I still have my old save, but I will likely start over because it has been so long since that run.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 21, 2019 13:57:26 GMT -5
Not sure this counts as a classic, but I've always been intrigued by it. I bounce off of it every time, though.
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Post by Moulinoski on Nov 21, 2019 21:50:07 GMT -5
Oh man. I have a huge list of games I still haven't beaten. Secret of Mana is a big white whale for me (language doesn't matter, I still get lost). For being a big Dragon Quest maniac, I've never beaten Dragon Quest Monsters 2 or Caravan Hearts! I don't even own any version of DQM2! I have Castlevania: Curse of Darkness sitting on top of my PS2 but I'm only like two or three hours in. I've wanted to get into the Ultima series, but no console version has clicked for me (I was enjoying Ultima 7 on SNES until I got lost and I grew frustrated with the hit detection). I especially want to seriously try Ultima 4, but I keep getting lost in the NES version. Ultima 3 is... just impossible on either DOS, NES, or the GBC homebrew port. The only Ultima game I've managed to truly enjoy and beat was Runes of Virtue for Gameboy. Oh did I fall in love with that game! The sequel, however, I made it all the way to the final dungeon but... I... I can't deal with the pie factory floor. Maybe I'll go back to it someday, but I definitely had to take a break from it. It frustrated me to no end! I have Phantasy Star on Switch but I've only made it as far as... past the intro. And I once got really far into Phantasy Star IV but I was playing on PSP and my save file went kaput. I now have it on the Genesis Mini and have played it for a bit, but I can't shake the feeling that I want to get a Retron 5 or something similar that can play NES/SNES/Genesis games. Oh. And I've never beaten Banjo-Kazooie. I never owned it, but I've played it. And Jet Force Gemini is another one that I did own, I did get super far into... and then I could never figure out what to do next. Edit: Oh, I just remembered Alundra! I have it on my PS Vita and it's just like "you played me for like 10 hours, why did you stop?" I don't know, Alundra, I don't know. I was loving it, though. I guess the dungeons were a bit on the lengthy side. Zelda dungeons tend to be just the right length, neither too short (well, sometimes they're too short) or too long.
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