|
Post by Ex on May 5, 2021 10:50:15 GMT -5
This one is on my list for this month, so we can compare notes. I believe Gun-Nac will be worth your time. I played it on the standard difficulty (#2 out of 4), and didn't run into much trouble until stage 7 and 8. Stage 7 is just relentless, and stage 8 has a final boss that has many offensive attack vectors. This being a Compile programmed shmup sees more objects moving on screen than your typical 8-bit shmup would. I wanted to get a legit run (no savestates) so I just kept continuing on stage 8. On #2 difficulty you have unlimited continues, but you'll still need to start the entire stage over again.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on May 6, 2021 1:22:20 GMT -5
Maybe I forgot to post it or something, but I'm actually pretty sure I beat Gun-Nac not terribly long ago. But guess what? 1CC, suckas! Just barely, too, although it wouldn't have been so tight if I'd realized my bomb stock was restoring on deaths at the last boss. Lost about four lives before I'm like, wait, I've got bombs! Just scraped it out on the last life.
I agree with you that the difficulty spikes significantly at Stage 7. You really want a good weapon, and even then, it's not always the easiest to hold on to. My favorite was easily #4, the flamethrower. Get the right technique on it, and you can keep it far forward, and it helps protect your sides as well at higher levels. Never could get it boosted back up in that last stage, though.
As always, Compile shows their technical proficiency here. It has their signature feel, even more than The Guardian Legend, it feels a lot like the Aleste games. I did note, however, that several weapons weren't all that great owing to the NES' limitations (I assume, anyway). Sustaining the rate of fire was tricky with them. The laser had a wide spread but slow, the homing shot is just a tad too slow, the big ball shot the same. In fact, I'd really only say #1 and #4 are really good weapons, so thankfully you can do a lot of damage with your default shot. I also found it interesting how you can swap your bomb types out. This can actually be pretty useful in spots - the water bomb bailed me out several times in the last stage, until I swapped to the "normal" style bomb for the last boss.
Anyway, I think this is... probably a 7.5, maaaaaaybe an 8. For the NES, it's an astoundingly "modern" feeling shooter. Definitely recommended for shooter fans, just to see what a great developer could do with the NES hardware.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on May 6, 2021 9:49:07 GMT -5
Stage 7 got tricky for me, because of all the sideways shooting flame wisps that never let up. There's a particularly long stretch in that stage where Compile just really wants to kill you. The final boss gave me fits because whenever I died fighting it, I'd lose my upgraded weapon, and be stuck with the default weak pew pew blaster - which doesn't offer much resistance against that boss. I tended to stick with weapon 3, the homing boomerang things, and bomb type W (water cascade). That weapon combo got me all the way to stage 7 before I ever even died. Weapon 3 fully upgraded is great, but yes it can be too slow for the later stages' barrages. I didn't mess with the the flame column weapon at all, maybe that's the secret sauce for stage 7/8. I agree that Gun-Nac feels more modern than its 8-bit contemporaries at the time, with the exception of perhaps Crisis Force. But it's been quite a few years since I beat Crisis Force, I just remember it was awesome.
|
|
|
Post by toei on May 6, 2021 10:04:44 GMT -5
Played a little Gun Nac too, but I dropped it around Stage 5. Sure, it's technically impressive - it's fast, busy, and very smooth - but honestly, that's exactly what I expect from Compile, so that's not a surprise there. These guys could have made a shmup run smoothly on a cheap calculator. Gameplay wise, a lot of their shmups are very similar, though, and this is clearly one of the lesser ones. Weapons are a bit weak like Sarge mentioned, and you can basically sleepwalk through half the game. Also, one thing I don't like about Compile's style in general is that the levels are always kind of long. Compared to other 8-bit Compile shooters, both Game Gear Alestes are clearly better.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on May 6, 2021 10:20:59 GMT -5
>it's technically impressive - it's fast, busy, and very smoothI agree.
>Gameplay wise, a lot of their shmups are very similar, thoughI agree Compile was formulaic. But I also like Compile's formula, so their shmups are always a good time. >this is clearly one of the lesser onesDon't agree. I could understand someone not liking the goofy theme here though. >Weapons are a bit weak like Sarge mentionedUntil you upgrade them. If you get a particular weapon # power-up, and keep grabbing that particular weapon # power-ups, that particular weapon # will evolve in spread and density. Then keep grabbing the P (power) icons and the weapon's damage itself evolves. You can evolve any given weapon to be really devastating over time. Until you die that is, then it's all lost and you have to start all over again. >you can basically sleepwalk through half the gameStandard difficulty is low on the first six stages, the last two stages is where the kid gloves come off. But this game supports 4 different difficulty levels. Maybe give the highest difficulty level a try, see how that changes the first half of the game? >the levels are always kind of long
This I absolutely agree with. The stages in Gun-Nac should have been shorter. >Compared to other 8-bit Compile shooters, both Game Gear Alestes are clearly better.Your opinion is noted, but I'd say they are equally as good. The GG Aleste entries are really impressive given their hardware limitations. But so is Gun-Nac.
|
|
|
Post by toei on May 6, 2021 12:35:55 GMT -5
^I know how the power-up system works, it's the same as with every Compile shooter. EDIT - I'm gonna give it another shot. I was admittedly very tired yesterday when I tried it. I might get into it more today. Also, I switched to MESEN, which is way better than the old NES emulator I was using.
BTW, I once did a quick count of Compile's vertical shmups and I got to 19. I probably missed a few. All of them could pretty much be called Aleste something or other (I think roughly half of them are). I tend to respect them for their dedication to perfecting a specific genre, though. There's an interview with Compile's president on shmuplations where he talks about that, I think I posted it here once. That was really his philosophy; if you stick to one thing, you're bound to get really good at it.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on May 6, 2021 13:10:41 GMT -5
I switched to MESEN, which is way better than the old NES emulator I was using. That's the emulator I used to beat Gun-Nac as well. MESEN has become my go-to emulator for NES (when playing on PC anyway). I believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if Compile made more than 19 shmups even. They were definitely fans of the genre. Although the company also made puzzle, adventure, and RPG games, but yes shmups were their bread and butter. I recall they've made 7 different Aleste games, including the new GGA3. Unless you meant the format itself, in that case yes, Compile made most of their shmups in an overhead vertically scrolling format. They had a few that were sideways horizontally scrolling though. Compile was a developer that I respect very much, so I may seem kinda defensive of them. Tis a shame they went out with a whimper instead of a bang.
|
|
|
Post by toei on May 6, 2021 15:14:58 GMT -5
Aleste (MSX & SMS) Aleste 2 (MSX) Aleste Gaiden (MSX2) MUSHA (Genesis) GG Aleste (GG) Super Aleste/Space Megaforce (SNES) Robo Aleste (Sega CD) GG Aleste 2 (GG) Power Strike 2 (SMS)*
Aleste 3 (not technically by Compile)
So I count 9 made by Compile. But what I meant was that any of their other vertical shmups - and 19 was for vertical shmups only - could have been named Aleste if they weren't already. It's not just the format - they mostly use the same type of weapon system with the numbered weapons and P icons, similar pacing, similar difficulty often, they're all pretty much like a series. The main determining factor as to whether a game was called Aleste or not, from what I read, was the publisher they were working with. And Aleste started out as a continuation of Zanac - they just didn't have the rights to that name - so if you could even include that game.
*This one may be debatable, but it's a direct sequel to Power Strike, which was a port of Aleste.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on May 6, 2021 15:30:31 GMT -5
Nice research toei. It's worth mentioning with Compile, that identically named entries on different platforms, were usually different games entirely. In my experience they didn't just clone the game, they remade/remixed it.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on May 6, 2021 17:52:40 GMT -5
I do kinda agree with toei that it's a bit lesser than their others shmups, although not by a whole lot. I think that so many of the weapons aren't as satisfying hurts it a bit. It's very much in the vein of the other Aleste games, and fits the Compile "house style" to a tee. Personally, I'd probably put Space Megaforce/Super Aleste above this, but I'm not sure I'd put MUSHA above it, mainly because I'm not a huge fan of that game. I should probably roll around to Spriggan this month - I liked what I saw there a bit more than MUSHA, despite being quite similar.
|
|