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Post by Xeogred on Nov 1, 2020 13:53:28 GMT -5
56:41
What I logged for HLTB: 2x speed. Ashe level 65. 39/45 hunts, 11/12 Espers, most side quests/dungeons done outside of end game and Trial Mode. 40% trophies
I'd maybe keep going, if I had the time and energy but life ain't giving that to me right now along with trying to find a new job and stuff lately, so I wanted to at least finally polish this one off and see the credits roll. From the hunts and backtracking I did, the main story path was pretty easy and that was the case with the final stretch of bosses too. Still a pretty cool and epic final boss though. A satisfying and happy ending, the happy part can be rare with this franchise so that's cool. Optimistic vibes are more appealing right now.
So I may or may not shelve this one just yet, but yeah. Not really sure if I'll be able to play more right now and try to grind more of the brutal end game dungeons and bosses/hunts. The Zodiac Age version certainly probably saved me ~20 some hours worth. I bet I could have beaten this one around the 40 hour mark if I booked it more hardcore, but I had such a blast exploring and playing what I did, taking my time doing all the hunts and a lot of optional stuff along the way.
With all that out of the way, I have now officially beaten FF1-15 all in some form, obviously excluding the two MMO games. I can't really get into the NES versions of FF1-2 so I count ports there instead, but it still counts to me.
FF1: PSX/GBA/PSP FF2: PSP FF3: NES FF4: PSX/SNES/GBA/PSP FF5: GBA FF6: SNES/PSX ETC
We talked about this recently in the Now Playing thread so I'll just post it here again:
S: FF4-FF7, FF7R A: FF10, FF12, maybe 13-2 B: FF8, FF13 C: FF1, FF3, FF9 D: FF2, FF15, LR, 10-2
FF12 has some flaws preventing it from reaching my top tier ranking for FF. No interesting villains, a weirdly paced story that doesn't seem effectively fleshed out enough, and some of the characters are completely flat. Dare I say it, I don't think Penalo was the worst, no... she had more personality and character to me than Basch! There were times in scenes where the camera would cut to him and I'd be like, oh yeah... that guy? Vaan really hijacked his spot as the potential lead I guess. I loved how the story, when it was good and interesting, focused entirely on Ashe after awhile. She was awesome, along with Balthier and Fran. As a whole, it's one of the better likable FF groups to me. I'd put them around the same level as the FF8 cast for my tastes. Some characters could be better but none of them were a bother.
Overall, the gameplay certainly shines like all of Matsuno games. There is a deluge of interesting and unique mechanics here to play with. I don't know if I see myself going through this monster many times over, but I can certainly see how the replay value is through the roof, especially with the ZA version and its job system. This is some hardcore RPG stuff when you really dig into it and leaves the player hundreds of options and things to play with. I ended up rotating out Vaan and Balthier a fair bit for a fighter, but ended up maining Ashe the most because the insane options of magic to work with was just too fun. Surprisingly I used Penalo a lot too, simply because she was a White/Time Mage. Constantly buffing/debuffing and all that. The battle system gets amazing when you come up to some of the tougher hunts or Espers and bosses. The Gambit system goes along with everything I'm saying here, the customization is just insanely awesome and it's annoying how FF13 and FF15 were such a downgrade in this department and friendly AI control setups.
Beyond that, while the game doesn't have the greatest story to tell, the world of Ivalice was outstanding to explore and such a joy to be in. Topped off with yet another legendary Hitoshi Sakimoto OST. I'm not sure if you could say there was tons of environmental storytelling throughout or anything metaphorically like that here, but in a way the world building and just how much every city and location was meticulously carved out, was super impressive. I even loved talking to every single NPC when I reached new cities and that can be rare for some RPG's. And note I didn't say towns there, it's cities! It's still incredible that this is a PS2 game underneath, because the cities are bustling with activity and people everywhere. It looks so lived in and is amazing to be in. So, the game had a great vibe and atmosphere, which can often carry a game for me. It felt like a grand journey and I'm already feeling a bit melancholic having to leave it behind now.
For my own sake, if I ever do tackle this beast again for changes on my characters or someone wants an idea on some good party setups, these were my job choices and worked out very nicely:
Vaan: Bushi/Knight Balthier: Shikari/Foebreaker Fran: Machinist/Uhlan Basch: Knight/Time Battlemage Ashe: Black Mage/Red Battlemage Penelo: White Mage/Time Battlemage
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Post by Chainsaw Bilqis on Nov 1, 2020 15:42:19 GMT -5
Very cool. I will be going back to my own Zodiac Age play through this month. Still just ten hours in but have enjoyed it a lot. I like job systems.
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Post by Xeogred on Nov 1, 2020 15:57:04 GMT -5
Very cool. I will be going back to my own Zodiac Age play through this month. Still just ten hours in but have enjoyed it a lot. I like job systems. Do you recall what jobs you picked for everyone?
I think the game picked up after the ~10 hour mark for me. Not that the beginning is bad (though I sunk a little over 20 hours into it back in the day on the PS2), but I think once you get access to picking a second job for everyone, along with more abilities, Espers, Gambits, etc, then the combat gets pretty awesome.
I'm usually a sucker for rockin' bombastic tracks in games, but FF12's OST reminded me of Chrono Cross a lot actually... in being a very serene and beautiful soundscape. This was one of my favorite tracks:
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Post by Ex on Nov 1, 2020 22:10:52 GMT -5
Nice job finishing FF12 Xeogred. It always surprises me how quickly you beat games (I don't think you're a "stop and smell the roses" kind of player), but I'm sure that 2X speed had an impact here. In general I agree with your positives and negatives concerning this JRPG. While I wasn't enthralled with FF12's plot either, I also didn't find it actively annoying either, as I have with other FF entries. I'm happy to see you commend FF12's combat system, because it is indeed complex in a good way, and rewards careful automation planning for the harder fights. I honestly think FF12's combat system was too complex for average Joe gamer though, and that's why this game's sequels devolved in that regard. FF12 is easily in the top 5 best JRPGs I've ever played, and I'm glad to see another fan on HRG.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 1, 2020 22:55:16 GMT -5
I have no doubt 2x speed really helped get that playtime down. Cool that you finished it off, and glad both you and Ex dig it so much. I still have a few Final Fantasy games I haven't finished, and they're all sequels: FFX-2, FFXIII-2, and FFXIII-3. And, of course, the MMOs. Why did they feel the need to make those "mainline" games? That still annoys me. I mean, Phantasy Star Online didn't feel like it needed to call itself Phantasy Star V, and it was plenty successful.
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Post by toei on Nov 2, 2020 0:16:19 GMT -5
I have no doubt 2x speed really helped get that playtime down. Cool that you finished it off, and glad both you and Ex dig it so much. I still have a few Final Fantasy games I haven't finished, and they're all sequels: FFX-2, FFXIII-2, and FFXIII-3. And, of course, the MMOs. Why did they feel the need to make those "mainline" games? That still annoys me. I mean, Phantasy Star Online didn't feel like it needed to call itself Phantasy Star V, and it was plenty successful. Same with Dragon Quest 10. The "(series title) online" terminology should have become standard.
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Post by Xeogred on Nov 2, 2020 7:37:59 GMT -5
I'm with you guys there with the naming scheme issue. I can't say I've truly beaten "FF1-15" and always have to add a quick note to specify. It's also both comical and kind of cool to me how they're working on FF16 now, SIXTEEN... frick that's even surpassed all the longest running Mega Man lines. Nice job finishing FF12 Xeogred . It always surprises me how quickly you beat games (I don't think you're a "stop and smell the roses" kind of player), but I'm sure that 2X speed had an impact here. In general I agree with your positives and negatives concerning this JRPG. While I wasn't enthralled with FF12's plot either, I also didn't find it actively annoying either, as I have with other FF entries. I'm happy to see you commend FF12's combat system, because it is indeed complex in a good way, and rewards careful automation planning for the harder fights. I honestly think FF12's combat system was too complex for average Joe gamer though, and that's why this game's sequels devolved in that regard. FF12 is easily in the top 5 best JRPGs I've ever played, and I'm glad to see another fan on HRG. Yeah you've noted this, funny to see some trends with other players after awhile. I guess I'm a bit of a methodical machine with newer games (talking like PS2 era and up). The one genre that I rack up way more time in, sometimes even double HLTB's numbers, would be the "immersive sim" stuff in the vein of Deus Ex, or more recently Dishonored. It's one of my favorite genres and I want to explore every single little corner, maximize everything possible, and am extremely thorough with these games. I might "stop and smell the roses" a little more in this genre too, since first person can be... well immersive in ways other genres aren't. FF13's combat can get pretty intricate and awesome, if one plays a bit outside the long main line path. But yeah, these are the two serious issues I take with it coming out of FF12 and other FF's: - Can't switch party leader in battle and if the party leader dies, it's game over. FF12 on the other hand, even lets you bring out other characters if your entire party is wiped... yet that doesn't mean it makes all those tougher battles easier. It was often frantic switching people out and trying to get everyone else revived and back in. I liked this and it could get pretty tactically challenging. - There is literally NO party AI customization whatsoever in FF13 from what I recall. Do you want a character to prioritize healing X character above others? (um, how about the party leader? Since that's a legit issue sometimes!) Use this buff or that debuff in certain orders? Too bad, you just have to let them do their thing and hope for the best!
The whole Roles/Stagger system was to my liking though. Which carried over in a good way with FF7R.
Sarge : Since you're a fan of FF13, I'll be curious on your takes for FF13-2 and LR when you get to them. FF13-2 is my favorite of the trilogy by a large margin. Combat customization is open from the beginning, likable characters, an actual rival villain throughout the story, big sci-fi slant and time travel, incredible final boss. Great stuff. It's also one of the rare JRPG's with a monster capturing focus for your third character, that I liked. Generally I'm not a huge fan of that idea but it worked for me here.
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Post by Ex on Nov 2, 2020 10:57:44 GMT -5
FF13's combat can get pretty intricate and awesome, if one plays a bit outside the long main line path. I wasn't aware there was any play outside the "main path". People always describe FF13 as a linear corridor. Which I found ironic that folks complained about that, because FF10 is a linear corridor, and yet no one cared there. The "Roles/Stagger" system you mentioned sounds interesting though. I do own FF13 parts 1-3 on PS3, I'd like to play them eventually. Personally I've had a difficult time getting into RPGs this year for some reason. I managed to finish New Vegas at least, after putting 117 hours into it - though most of that time was from 2019 playing. I need to get back to Digital Devil Saga for real. I read there are two consumable items that can diminish its encounter rate, that'd fix my only issue the game.
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Post by Xeogred on Nov 2, 2020 12:09:45 GMT -5
FF13's combat can get pretty intricate and awesome, if one plays a bit outside the long main line path. I wasn't aware there was any play outside the "main path". People always describe FF13 as a linear corridor. Which I found ironic that folks complained about that, because FF10 is a linear corridor, and yet no one cared there. The "Roles/Stagger" system you mentioned sounds interesting though. I do own FF13 parts 1-3 on PS3, I'd like to play them eventually. Personally I've had a difficult time getting into RPGs this year for some reason. I managed to finish New Vegas at least, after putting 117 hours into it - though most of that time was from 2019 playing. I need to get back to Digital Devil Saga for real. I read there are two consumable items that can diminish its encounter rate, that'd fix my only issue the game. 117 hours into New Vegas might be why you're not engaging as much with other super long games this year, haha.
FF13 is a 20-30 hour long hallway/tutorial. It can't really be denied. The game forces specific pairings of characters throughout this entire portion. Around the last two chapters, you get to another planet/moon/island or something that opens up big time, FAR more than anything you get in FF10. Now granted, I recall this area was like 90% gameplay driven... not a lot of story incentive or side quest scenarios to dig up, but I guess I just had a blast finally exploring some bigger areas and having the combat system fully open to me. I joked with myself that I was playing with a Charlie's Angels roster at this point, with Lightning, Fang, and Vanille, all the females of the game. Imagine a few of the bigger FF12 maps that rotated together, that's kind of what this portion of FF13 was like. Or like, 2 big Xenoblade maps or something.
Could definitely talk up more about the cool combat whenever you get to it.
As I mentioned, FF13-2 lets you customize your party setup and the Roles immediately. So not having a 20-30 hour tutorial easily makes it the better game to me.
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Post by paulofthewest on Nov 2, 2020 18:50:16 GMT -5
I have no doubt 2x speed really helped get that playtime down. Cool that you finished it off, and glad both you and Ex dig it so much. I still have a few Final Fantasy games I haven't finished, and they're all sequels: FFX-2, FFXIII-2, and FFXIII-3. And, of course, the MMOs. Why did they feel the need to make those "mainline" games? That still annoys me. I mean, Phantasy Star Online didn't feel like it needed to call itself Phantasy Star V, and it was plenty successful. I'm guessing money grab? While I definitely agree with Xeogred that FFX is a great game, the sequel is lousy and took girl power to the extreme.
I did enjoy FFXII, but I agree it isn't top-tier. While the change in game mechanics was fun, the "okay here is the plot" moment came waaaaaaaay to late in the game. I remember spending most of my time running around not knowing why. Once it explained everything it seemed like there was maybe a couple of hours left. Although that was the PS2 version.
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