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Post by toei on Sept 13, 2018 14:07:32 GMT -5
I've always enjoyed VS fighters, but I've never really played any long enough to become really at it, in the sense of competitive play, etc. Which I'm not particularly interested in, though playing against friends is always fun.
Unlike most gamers these days, I still got love for 3D fighters. The series I've played the most was Virtua Fighter, starting as a Saturn owner in the '90s. I love the physicality of it - most if not all the moves are physically possible, the physics were always as developed as the technology allowed, and there's an obvious, real-world martial arts logic to it. You can actually see, physically, why one move wins out against another, rather than the designers deciding that this move trumps this other move in this specific version just because. The basics are simple enough - punch, kick, block, and grab, three attack heights (standing blocks high and mid, low dodges high and blocks low) - but there is a ton of subtle depth - things like distance affecting the power of attacks, the weight of the opponent determining which juggles works, blocking to stop movements mid-way to trick opponents or position yourself just so. I love the series, particularly the first 4 games. I used to play Wolf a lot, then for a while I tried learning Akira in VF2 and 3. I got decent with him, but never good. I'm also fond of The Last Bronx, especially those character designs (late-90s Japanese delinquents), but I wish there'd been a sequel to add to the movesets and so on. Fighting Vipers was cool, but the sequel didn't really add anything, and the new look was horrible.
Other than that, I was always fond of Soul Calibur, because of how incredibly smooth and instinctive the gameplay feels. The more I feel in control, the more I enjoy myself, and Soul Calibur is great at that. The basics are also very similar to Virtua Fighter, with the addition of weapons.
I used to hate Tekken, because I felt like the actual feeling of impact and flow of combat just weren't there in the first two, and the control setup was weird, but starting from 3 they got the fighting feeling much more satisfying, and I just got used to the controls. Didn't play the series as much as I would've liked, but I respect it.
Tobal and Tobal 2 are super underrated. The first was a very simple affair, but the feel was right (if a bit slow), and the second sped things up and added a ton of depth. Shame it wasn't released here. They've also got the greatest single-player in the genre - full-fledged roguelikes using the elaborate fighting engine. Body slamming dragons and punching giant rats in the face.
As for non-orthodox fighters, the two Bushido Blade games are excellent. The one-hit kills created a tension that simply did not exist in the game before, and a whole new level of feints and mind games. It also just feels great to be able to fell your foe in one slash of your sword. Too bad those Kengo games are terrible.
This post is already longer than I intended, so I'll keep the 2D fighters for later.
Discuss.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 13, 2018 15:08:12 GMT -5
We definitely need one of these threads. Interestingly, I used to not like tournament fighters at all, but resolved to get better at them, and lo and behold, my appreciation of them improved considerably.
I think of the ones you mentioned, Soul Calibur is the standout. That game is still solid to this day. I also dug the sequel. I fell off the wagon after that, though.
Mostly, though, I played a lot of 2D fighters. My absolute favorites in the genre are Street Fighter Alpha 3, Capcom vs. SNK 2, and Marvel vs. Capcom 2. Ironically, I tend to play Street Fighter games more aggressively, and Vs. games more defensively. And, as it turns out, Street Fighter IV (in its original form) is old enough to talk about. I dug into that one pretty heavily, too. I even competed in the big GameStop tournament they had, and managed to come in second in the local tournament. Didn't travel to the next one, though, which was three hours away. (And honestly, I could have won it all, but I could not pull my Ultras to save my life, because I hadn't even played the game yet, and they changed the timing on them. I dominated most of the matches I lost until I got smacked with someone's supers.)
Also, before I forget about it, most of SNK's fighters have felt a little off to me. I think it's something in the hit detection and how impacts feel in the game. Solid, though. Mark of the Wolves is the exception; despite the limited roster, that game might be SNK's best fighter. Their weapon-based fighters were stronger overall, in my opinion, especially the fantastic Last Blade games.
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Post by toei on Sept 13, 2018 16:21:05 GMT -5
Eh, I always preferred SNK's output over Capcom's. What initially drew me to them was their sense of style versus Capcom's blander aesthetic (and their numerous superhero fighters). When I was a kid I didn't have access to most of these games, but I would look at screenshots in magazines and those huge sprites and very '90s character designs looked so cool to me. I also feel, contrary to you, that SNK's (and pretty much all Neo Geo) fighters had a chunkier / stronger feeling of impact to the fighting. I dig Samurai Shodown's general atmosphere, and how dangerous a single hit is - combos are nice and all, but I prefer to be able to deal a lot of damage with a well-placed hit. I think SS also invented Desperation moves. I like Fatal Fury's plane-switching, particularly in 3, and how Art of Fighting 3 introduced a bunch of elements from 3D fighters in a 2D format, like basic punch-punch-punch combos and pouncing on downed opponents, which brought a new flavor to the genre (and, of course, turned off the purists). Ironically, I never really played the King of Fighter games, despite it being SNK's best-known series.
I was never into Power Stone and Smash Brothers and so on, but The Outfoxies is a great early arena fighter in 2D, with tons of weapons and elaborate levels with various hazards. If anybody here hasn't played it, do it. The single-player is cool, there's even a final level that plays like an action side-scroller.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 13, 2018 16:54:48 GMT -5
Oh, I realize there's a pretty big divide on SNK vs. Capcom. SNK fans tend to be a very devoted lot. Interestingly, I don't care as much for how Street Fighter II feels; I much prefer the Alpha games. Maybe that's why I like MotW more; it almost has a Capcom feel to it. I agree with you that games that have extremely powerful attacks have a whole different feel. I can dig simple combos, but don't much care for the ridiculous combo-happy stuff. Which, of course, seems at odds with me liking MvC2, but that game can be played more effectively than you think without stuff like air combos.
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Post by Ex on Sept 13, 2018 21:43:31 GMT -5
I've played a lot of Tekken games, I'm still not a fan of any of them. They are technically sound, but just come across as unimpressive to me. There's not any "heart" to them, if that makes any sense. It's like a fighting series made by a sentient AI for what it thinks humans would like. I've been on many gaming forums over the years, and you're the first person I've seen praise these games. I'm not saying you're wrong. I've not any time with them. I have secured ISOs of both though due to your praise. Thankfully the second game has an English fan translation. I spent countless hours playing the original Bushido Blade with friends. It is a true classic, a very brave game for its time. So much tension when two skilled players are dueling. That said, I was never much for the sequel. It just felt "off" to me, and the new characters weren't as interesting. It's not bad, but I prefer the original by a mile. There are two games I'd recommend to fans of the Bushido Blade series; Kengo: Master of Bushido on PS2, and Kengo: Legend of the 9 on Xbox 360. -
I am actually a big fan of versus fighters. I remember in middle school when this genre first started emerging, I was baffled how a game concept so simple could be any fun. "Just two people fighting on one screen?" And then I played Street Fighter and I was insta-hooked. But I've not played in any professional tournaments, that's not something that's prevalent anywhere I've lived. But I really enjoy playing VS fighters alone or with friends. I can probably bring some useful "hidden gems" into this thread at some point. Not tonight though, I'm too tired. I'll just do a boring list first. Ex's top 10 favorite VS fightersDead or Alive 3 (Xbox) Mortal Kombat II (SNES) Rival Schools (PS1) Soul Calibur (DC) Street Fighter Alpha 3 (Arcade) Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) Super Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES) The King of Fighters 2006 (PS2) The King of Fighters '98 (Arcade) Waku Waku 7 (Neo Geo) If anybody wants to know why I love any of those games, just ask, I'll explain. I'll be back later to recommend some "hidden gems" or at least "games I like that were collectively shat upon" of this genre. Cool thread toei .
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Post by Xeogred on Sept 13, 2018 21:50:26 GMT -5
I've played a lot of Tekken games, I'm still not a fan of any of them. They are technically sound, but just come across as unimpressive to me. There's not any "heart" to them, if that makes any sense. It's like a fighting series made by a sentient AI for what it thinks humans would like. WTF?
Love Soul Caliber 1-2 and I'm excited for the new one, hope it puts the series back on track.
Despite my strong affinity to pixels and sprites, I prefer 3D fighters. I have really never cared for Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat much. I liked Killer Instinct a lot though.
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Post by Ex on Sept 13, 2018 21:56:32 GMT -5
Tekken is my favorite fighting series. Just another reason you should beat Urban Reign then. It was designed and developed by the Tekken team. Paul Phoenix and Marshall Law are unlockable characters even.
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Post by toei on Sept 13, 2018 22:13:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I hate Mortal Kombat, too. So stiff and clumsy. Of course, 6-year-old me thought it was the coolest shit ever. I can't say I really like any Western-made fighting game except for Samurai Gunn, which is too new to talk about here, but my friends and I played it a lot. We even had a mini-tournament. Dive Kick is fun too.
I'm one of the few people who preferred Bushido Blade 2 over 1. They streamlined the system in a way that made it more logical and immediate. The single-player was also a lot more involved, though it was pretty cool how every battle area was connected in the first game. Kengo tried to simplify it that much more, though, and completely ruined the formula.
You know what really obscure / overlooked fighter I dig? The Karate Tournament. It's a purely Karate-based fighter where you have to score points by striking the opponent, like a '90s update of Karate Champ. It was made by Mitchell, a company that included a lot of former Capcom employees. It's not flashy (though those backgrounds are very trippy) and doesn't play like a standard fighter, so many will dismiss it offhand, but it's great. It's really all about creating an opening and going for it, while keeping up your defenses. There are two attack buttons, and each direction results in a different attack, so I think there are... 18 moves? Something like that.
I also like Battle K-Road, which is sort of halfway between SF2-style fighter and tournament sim, though it's not as raw and direct as The Karate Tournament.
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Post by Ex on Sept 14, 2018 12:03:11 GMT -5
Random assortment of VS fighters I like that aren't exactly popular... Advanced V.G. 2 (PS1) All-Star Fighters (PS2) Arcana Heart (PS2) Asuka 120% Excellent: Burning Fest. Excellent (PS1) Bloody Roar: Primal Fury (GC) Choujin Gakuen Gowcaizer (PS1) Critical Blow (PS1) Evil Zone (PS1) Fatal Fury: Wild Ambition (PS1) Fighters' Impact (PS1) Gundam: Battle Assault (PS1) Gundam: Battle Assault 2 (PS1) Yusha: Heaven's Gate (PS1) Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (DC) Kakuto Chojin (Xbox) Kart Fighter (FC) Megatudo 2096 (PS1) Metal Masters (GB) Plasma Sword: Nightmare of Bilstein (DC) Power Quest (GBC) Project Cerberus (PSP) Project Justice: Rival Schools 2 (DC) Rakuga Kids (N64) Seifuku Densetsu: Pretty Fighter (SFC) Slap Happy Rhythm Busters (PS1) Super V.G. - Variable Geo (SFC) Tao Feng: Fist of the Lotus (Xbox) Tatsunoko Fight (PS1) Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars (Wii) Tech Romancer (DC) The Rumble Fish (PS2) Touki Denshou: Angel Eyes (PS1) Twin Goddesses (PS1) Virtua Fighter Animation (SMS) Windy X Windam (DS) I could list more, but I suppose that's plenty. If anyone wants to know why I like any particular entry, just ask, I'll explain.
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Post by toei on Sept 14, 2018 12:49:54 GMT -5
From Ex's list:
All-Star Fighters is an interesting choice. It's a so-so 2.5D fighter, but it's notable for being the Simple 2000 series' version of an all-star, well, fighter, with characters from all the notable Simple games up until that point; you've got the dude from Earth / Global Defense Force, Scarecrow from Splatter Master, Asuka Ryou from Yakuza Fury, the Oneechanbara girl with a cowboy hat, and a bunch of other girls in bikinis. It's got a lot of charm.
I like Virtua Fighter Animation, too. It's surprisingly thorough and playable for a Master System / Game Gear fighter.
Yusha: Heaven's Gate is a pretty standard VF clone, except the character designs are a lot more out there and it doesn't play as well. I liked playing as the giant white gorilla though, he's cool. Apparently the arcade version was originally meant to run on Sega's Model 2, but, well, it didn't.
Speaking of Plasma Sword, have you played its prequel, Star Gladiator? It's a lot like a sci-fi Soul Calibur, depending on the character you play as. I like it.
If you like Kakuto Chojin, you should like Tobal 2. The atmosphere and aesthetics are very different, but a lot of the gameplay basics are the same, as they were made by the same people. Tobal 2 actually has wider movesets and more depth, from what I understand (I haven't had the chance to play Kakuto, but I'd love to.) It also has all these crazy options in single-player - you can recruit every single monster from the very involved roguelike Quest mode and import them into the arcade mode, or import you leveled-up character; my imported character was so strong that a simple unblocked punch would send a regular opponent more than halfway across the ring.
Fighter's Impact is cool. It's got a unique, free-flowing combo system where you're penalized if you try to repeat the same move, and solid martial arts bonafide. I wish it has become a proper series.
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