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Post by Sarge on Aug 23, 2021 16:39:36 GMT -5
Well, I'm saying that incorrectly dumped discs can also eventually cause a problem. I know some emulators are pretty finicky about their data handling (as is Fenrir, clearly). But Redump is absolutely the way to go these days. I tried to find a TruRip archive, but didn't have any luck with it, but for Fenrir, Redump is working for everything so far.
Also, it blows my mind the sort of retro gaming tech we get these days. To me, it almost feels like the early days of emulation again, with MiSTer, ODEs, flash carts, good HDMI scalers... fun times for vintage gaming all around!
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Post by Ex on Aug 23, 2021 17:11:24 GMT -5
incorrectly dumped discs can also eventually cause a problem I agree corrupt disc images will be problematic, regardless of which game is being emulated. Garbage in, garbage out. However, BIN/CUE by default is not a corrupt disc format. It's just the medium by which a disc image can be archived. So if a BIN/CUE is having a problem in an emulator, it's either the emulator's fault, or a corrupt disc image, but not the intrinsic archival format of BIN/CUE itself. That was my original point, so I want to be sure it's clearly stated.
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Post by Sarge on Aug 23, 2021 17:14:04 GMT -5
Ah, right, gotcha. Yeah, BIN/CUE is a very good format to use, and generally preferred over the ISO/WAV (although in the end both can behave identically).
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Post by anayo on Aug 24, 2021 11:46:25 GMT -5
I read somewhere that a .bin + .cue of Panzer Dragoon Saga wouldn't let you play the entire game for some reason. You read misinformed, inaccurate information. The BIN is the image data of the disc. The CUE tells the read software how to parse the BIN. The only way this combo wouldn't work, is if the emulator was unable to correctly read BIN/CUE format, or if the BIN/CUE files themselves were inaccurate or corrupt. Also, even if you were adamantly against using BIN/CUE, you could still use disc image files in a different format like ISO. What matters about disc images are obtaining ones which are accurate. Also, Saturn emulation is notoriously difficult. So someone using a bad disc image and an incorrectly setup emulator, would be prone to run into emulation difficulties. Especially while trying to emulate a multi-disc game such as PDS. I assure you thousands of people have emulated Panzer Dragoon Saga from start screen to credits. Primarily because the real game is so expensive. I will private message you the best emulator and where to get proper disc images. I ended up playing PDS in 2010. The task of soldering a modchip seemed overwhelming to me, so I bought a disc only copy of PDS and sold it back when I was through. I was glad for the sense of closure for a Saturn title I longed to experience. But I do not regard PDS as a good game. In my review on racket boy I basically said it was impressive by Sega Saturn standards, but not by any other metric. I'm glad to hear it's possible to play a backup copy of PDS from start to finish. I don't remember when or where I heard that you couldn't. Somewhere I read that PDS had special authenticity verification or something that made it stop working if you weren't playing a legitimate copy. The site where I read that may have been unreliable, or I may have misunderstood what I was reading, or Saturn fans may have ironed out a workaround since then. You're 100% right in that Saturn emulation has had a weird history. When I got into Sega Saturn 15+ years ago, I don't remember any playable Saturn emulators at all. Original hardware was the only way. Then 10+ years ago I think we had semi-playable Saturn emulators, but they needed a monster PC to work. For me, this elevated the Saturn's status as a special experience I couldn't just download on the spot. So it was really exciting to me whenever new developments made Sega Saturn more accessible to everyone. The most exciting developments included: - Pseudo saturn, a software payload which flashes any Sega Saturn action replay cartridge into a plug and play modchip. Soldering was such a hurdle for me in the 2000's that I bought a modest Saturn collection on eBay, usually disc only and Japanese versions to save money. Eventually I bought a mod chipped one from a guy on Racketboy, but I never forgot what it was like to want a modchip and to lack the knowhow to install one. So it was mind blowing to me that I could just plug a modchip into the Saturn's cartridge slot. - uoYabause, a Sega Saturn emulator for Android making it possible to play Sega Saturn on the go such as on a smart phone. I am still pissed off this won't run on my Nvidia Shield Portable because Nvidia won't support Open GL on that hardware. But at least it works on newer devices. I was also really into Professor Abrasive's Satiator, an SD card adapter allowing you to boot games via the Saturn's MPEG decoder card slot. Then he announced an asking price of $250 and I didn't care anymore. For that kind of money I'd just get a Fenrir.
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Post by Ex on Aug 24, 2021 12:08:17 GMT -5
anayoI agree that Panzer Dragoon Saga is a big fish in a small pond so to speak. Against the greater lexicon of JRPGs, it's nothing special aside from its aesthetics (which aren't original either). PDS is an unusual experience on a less accessible console, with a relatively low print run, so this affords it a forbidden fruit mystique. But that doesn't mean it's actually a fun game from a good game design standpoint, because it isn't. I'll also add that Saturn emulation has come a long way in a recent years. Between SSF, BizHawk, and Mednafen, I've been able to emulate everything I've been interested in. But yes you need a fairly beefy processor to do so in a playable fashion.
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Post by Sarge on Aug 24, 2021 13:41:13 GMT -5
I don't know what the current mod board market looks like on Saturn - I got one of the universal ones a while back to replace my old mod board, and I'm pretty positive than outside of bridging a jumper based on your model, there was no soldering required. But back in the early aughts, you definitely had to solder a blue wire to a tightly-pitched pin on the mobo, and that was terrifying. It's literally the first time I'd soldered. Got lucky and didn't break anything! I still don't know why the board eventually died on me, but die it did.
Now, though, I figure the Fenrir will be replacing that system wholesale. Even with the quirks I've hit so far, the experience has been really excellent.
The Satiator, despite the high price, does bring one advantage to the table, and that's in being able to leave your system completely stock. No drive replacement or anything, which means you can still use your original discs if you desire. I can absolutely see the appeal. But yeah, the price being so much higher is what got me to jump on the Fenrir instead, and the fact that getting a Rhea/Phoebe was difficult and the guy that makes them can be a bit prickly.
I disagree with y'all that it isn't a good game, but hey, different strokes and all that. I love it, although I admit that long underground segment is pretty bleh at points.
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Post by Xeogred on Aug 24, 2021 14:27:41 GMT -5
It's like the one game on the Saturn I'd like to emulate someday. If anything, the OST is incredible. Been a fan of the Panzer OST's for years but I've only played some of Orta, which I fell off hard. Dying at a boss puts you back at the beginning of the level. And those boss battles felt as long as the level itself. Got kind of tiring from the few levels I played, but I appreciate how creative and original these games are aesthetically.
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Post by anayo on Aug 24, 2021 14:38:38 GMT -5
I couldn't have said it better. I personally lived through and watched bypassing the Sega Saturn's copy protection turn into what it is today, but I'd still love to see a YouTube essay summarizing the timeline. I don't recall ever seeing that from any of the major retro gaming YouTubers. it seems like something Modern Vintage Gamer would cover, though. It's like the one game on the Saturn I'd like to emulate someday. If anything, the OST is incredible. Been a fan of the Panzer OST's for years but I've only played some of Orta, which I fell off hard. Dying at a boss puts you back at the beginning of the level. And those boss battles felt as long as the level itself. Got kind of tiring from the few levels I played, but I appreciate how creative and original these games are aesthetically. I have a huge soft spot for PD1 and PD2. I own Orta but haven't gotten around to tackling my X-box backlog yet. Also you're 100% correct about PDS's soundtrack because it is righteous.
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Post by Sarge on Aug 24, 2021 14:47:13 GMT -5
I got brick-walled at one boss/stage in Orta for years. Then I picked it up again on a whim, and managed to power all the way through to the end. For the record, it was this stage:
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Post by Ex on Aug 24, 2021 15:07:02 GMT -5
I'm not saying PDS is an awful game or anything, I'd give it a 7/10. The game has a strong forlorn atmosphere, idiosyncratic aesthetics, an above average OST, and an unusual plot. But the moment to moment play of the experience is weak, as are the scenario designs. I think PDS relies heavily on its presentation to make up for thin gameplay. That's how I remember the game, but it's been many years since I played (but not beat) PDS. I may give it a second chance someday. Edit: anayo I also own but have not finished Orta yet. I played its first stage back in 2007 to be sure the disc worked. That was as far as a I got. I'll bet it's above average though.
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