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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 23:11:57 GMT -5
I remember watching him play Ultimate Doom with an IGN guy a few years ago and I recall him being a lot better, if a little rusty. I mean Doom is what it is partially because Romero is a gamer, it's a big reason why IDs early games opted to be speedy and arcade style. I think he was holding back at least a little bit, though it does look like these levels are going to be "The Flesh Consumed"-style hard.
I agree, Doom and Doom 2 have a very different feel and I think both approaches are valid. In a lot of ways I prefer Doom 2 especially for the new enemy types (and the super shotgun of course). You could argue the original Doom levels feel more polished and consistent (until E4 anyway which feels tacked on and a little random in that much of the difficulty is front-loaded, but I still like it). Doom 2 levels are usually more open and much more interested in just going nuts and having fun and I really like that about it personally.
Final Doom however can be a bit of a shit show, especially Evilution with its tight, maze-y corridors, but it's kind of just an afterthought and an ascended fan project anyway.
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Post by Xeogred on Dec 13, 2018 21:54:14 GMT -5
Yeah that's the catch with Doom 2, it introduces the full roster of enemies and super shotgun which is an absolute game changer. This is what all the megawads for the most part play off of. But it's always fun to return to Ultimate Doom frequently as well for the classic roster, smaller compact maps, etc. I've played a handful of E1 inspired megawads, like Doom The Way Id Did (there's one for Doom 2 as well), which was decent. It would be cool to get an E1 styled megawad that's 10x harder though, haha. E1 will forever have the coolest atmosphere to me. I think most fans prefer the hell infested maps, but I'm always a sucker for the "base" maps (same with Quake). I agree about E4, it's insanely hard for the first two maps or so but then gets pretty easy.
This was one of the most interesting things about Doom PSX though, if you never played that one gunstar. On UV, Chaingunners were in the FIRST level! So it did have some varied enemy placement and if you go to some secret map at some point, you can get the super shotgun for Doom 1 maps, whatever is left to play after that. Certainly a cool remix of sorts with how different this port was at times.
I'm a big fan of TNT, since that one and Plutonia are always packaged into the collections out there, I've replayed those a ton as well. But yeah no denying TNT's quality control is all over the place and some maps feel like they would be a better fit for Duke Nukem 3D (there's some maps that try to depict beds or computer desks, etc, but look super corny to me haha). Plutonia is still the toughest of the official vanilla Doom releases to me. I get so bored of its constant brown/green textures but yeah, it's very consistently designed and has some great maps. I beat the fanmade Plutonia 2 which was certainly rage inducing at times. For better or worse, it rightfully captured the vibes and frustrations of Plutonia, lol. There's a megawad TNT 2 as well that I'm excited to check out maybe next year, it looks top notch from what I've seen. Maybe it'll be more consistent than the original!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 11:25:55 GMT -5
DTWID is pretty fun. I didn't like the Doom II one as much but it's still good. I think people have fun building the hell maps but most will agree that E1 has some of the best design of the first Doom, especially aesthetically as well as the general gameplay flow of how the levels lead you around naturally and fold black into themselves. Romero designed most of E1 of course, so that has a lot to do with it, though I'm not one of those people who dislikes Sandy Petersen's stuff. I absolutely love Doom II after all. He wasn't afraid to be experimental even if it didn't always work out and his texture choices are sometimes... questionable.
I have played Doom PSX and I think it's easily the best home port, not counting the newer HD ones. It's cut back in a few places but makes up for it by making other things new and fresh.
I caught the Sigil stream yesterday and watched the second one as well. Romero said the way he's balancing the difficulty is he's making it so he can't beat the levels on Ultra Violence which probably means it will be too easy for the rest of us, lol. They're still looking like cleverly designed maps though and I can't wait to try them.
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Post by Xeogred on Dec 14, 2018 21:03:30 GMT -5
I can't wait to play it. Might bump the resolution down at least, to get somewhat of a retro feel for it haha. Ampting up the difficulty could maybe be doable with Complex Doom, the only mod I've discovered over the years that I like... since it feels fairly authentic. It randomizes enemies (which can be unbalancing though), like quadruples the enemy roster, and adds in tons of new guns and other mechanics like useable ammo, health, armor packs, etc. I dig it. Was a fun way to go through the originals again. Yeah I'm glad to see another Doom 2 defender. The Chasm is one of my all time favorites and most people utterly hate that one haha. I'm a sucker for the underground/sewer/green ooze walls vibes that level gives off and the hilariously unrealistic platforming. I dig weird experimental levels like that. Always liked Tricks and Traps too. What fan megawads have you played @gunstargreen ? My top favorites are Alien Vendetta, Valiant (just about everything from skillsaw is great to me), and Hellbound. The latter has a different style than the norm and shockingly one mapper for the entire thing from what I know, I say shocking because this megawad has some of the most detailed maps I've ever seen by MILES. Most of them are giant too, along with "continuous exits" that interconnect so it feels like one enormous consistent adventure. There's not a lot of spawn traps or triggers, instead a lot of enemy placement is set in the level already. I played with Complex which made the experience even better and the enemy count is still extremely high so the difficulty was pretty brutal in spots, despite the lack of traps. There were even some levels that looked like parts straight out of Doom 3. The first few maps are a bit weird but man, this thing blew me away. Here's a map I really loved from it with someone using Complex, he's using mouse look and a nasty hud setup haha, but yeah should be a decent sample:
Also going to repost this from another post awhile back, but this Icon of Sin map from Plutonia 2 is really damn cool:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 23:58:26 GMT -5
Honestly I haven't mucked around with many, at least not the whole way through. I heard about the DTWID ones a while ago and checked those out. If my current Doom kick continues I'll probably play more of them.
I've seen a video of the Plutonia 2 boss before and yeah, it's way better than the original Icon.
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Post by Xeogred on Dec 15, 2018 17:42:50 GMT -5
Well, I can confirm that both DTWID's were overall very average at best, so yeah... there are tons of other better megawads out there to experience. My vote would be to give Valiant a shot. It has a few weapon changes and a few new enemies to spice things up, but they work flawlessly and together with skillsaw's awesome level design, it feels just as legit as the official installments. Some megawads are even better than the classics honestly. I mean most of me never wants to say that or put fan stuff over the official releases, but you probably know what I mean. Doom fans have come a long way and it's crazy how strong the community continues to be. I'll go forever. You always expect some awesome VGM remixes in most of them too, loved this track of one of DN3D's best songs:
No remix here, but one of my favorite levels from Valiant with a kickass tune too. And I absolutely loved the aesthetic of this portion of the map set.
pagb666's page in general has a lot of great playthroughs. No commentary and vanilla setups, perfect.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 16:58:29 GMT -5
This is a pretty great retrospective that does a good job of explaining the "combat chess" thing I mentioned. Worth a watch if you have a half hour to kill. He's not a big fan of Final Doom though.
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Post by Xeogred on Dec 16, 2018 18:15:39 GMT -5
I like how he mentions Doom is older than him. It's always great seeing younger people really get into the original games.
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Post by bonesnapdeez on Dec 16, 2018 20:13:20 GMT -5
I may play mostly weeb shit and Atari artifacts, but even I recognize the wokeness of Doom.
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Post by Xeogred on Dec 17, 2018 12:55:36 GMT -5
ANother huge fun thing about Doom and all its ports back in the day, is how incredibly varied the music is across all platforms. Something you'd never get today...
The 3DO version in particular is amazing:
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