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Post by Ex on Jan 24, 2019 17:07:11 GMT -5
This is a Demon's Souls thread. This is the USA Demon's Souls cover art.
This is the USA Demon's Souls trailer. This year Demon's Souls has become HRG compliant.
Back in 2017 I beat Demon's Souls myself for the first time. The experience was astounding, and ultimately Demon's Souls became my all time favorite 3D action-RPG. But what about your opinion? Have you played Demon's Souls? What's your take on the game that launched FromSoftware's most successful series yet?
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Post by Sarge on Jan 24, 2019 17:23:24 GMT -5
I have played it, but not for long. I think that I probably need to give it another chance, now that I've played through King's Field IV and gained more of an appreciation of From Software's style. Pretty sure Xeogred has made his love for the game known, to the point of dissing ( ) Shadow of the Colossus to do so.
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Post by Xeogred on Jan 24, 2019 19:35:06 GMT -5
Demon's Souls is my favorite game of the last two generations, at the very least. Time may allow it to rank even higher as nostalgia and my amount of replays for it will only continue to rise. Although I fanboy out to the series that it spawned and would give them all 10/10's as well, Demon's has never been topped. It has an atmosphere that is simply unmatched along with a very obtuse composer that gives it even more unique personality than anything else out there.
As Demon's is 10 years old now and I get older, my memories get fuzzier too! I started keeping track of my "Games Beaten" lists around 2011 and saw that I had Demon's listed in my 2012 notepad file. Thanks to psnprofiles.com, I was able to confirm this as it dates trophies you get and is easy to reference. It was June/July 2012. Weirdly enough I played Dark within June/July of 2012 as well, but did not finish it until I went back and went SSJ in 2014. The popularity of the franchise was still kind of in its infancy here but starting to build up. But this is about Demon's, so...
Imagine what you were playing and what was going on in 2012. Demon's Souls' online servers were still alive and active, this game was still about as hidden as it gets. It was thanks to an old friend retired from RB that convinced me to get into Demon's, which is also the second game I played once I really joined team PS3 and never looked back on the 360. I also moved out of my parents home in 2012, so it's kind of wild how some of this all connects. I didn't have huge websites like fextralife to reference anything for, or giant threads across the internet of all the experts out there, I just had one friend, the obtuse in game player messages, and me, which really makes the experience even better. I had no clue what I was doing. I've played some weird games like, that Ehrgeiz RPG mode or whatever, but this was like nothing I had experienced before. From the controls, to the strange NPC events, weird stats and figuring out exactly what they did, etc just everything was no man's land. I still laugh thinking back to how weird my first build was. I mainly used a spear weapon for most of the run because it was so safe and defensive, but rather boring. I think I eventually used a katana at some point and had more fun then, but I usually favor STR builds now. The online player integration is amazing because it fits in with the world so well. People leaving messages that are either going to help you piece things together, or completely screw you over which was usually the case. Isn't that humanity? And Demon's was always in Online Mode, unless you were straight up disconnected from PSN or whatever. So... you could easily get invaded all the time. The boss in 3-3 is supposed to always be a summoned player as well which is interesting. There was also this humorous part in the final level (1-4) on a bridge before the final boss that was almost like a guaranteed invasion and always made me sweat. I don't know if I ever defeated a single invader in this one, balancing was not a thing at all and most players killed you instantly. This sounds annoying and it was, but I wouldn't take back these memories and it just added to the allure of the game and getting further in every level.
I dug up my builds in 2017: The second character was my Platinum runback in 2015. To get all the trophies required careful offline manipulation of the bizarre World Tendency and multiple playthroughs to see all the NPC events and whatnot. There is also one rare drop for a "Pure Bladestone" item that's required for a certain upgrade and has a 1/200th chance to drop, so that's the infamous trophy that ends most people. But I stuck through it. I can't even remember what NG+(X) level I was on by that point but it was several and my character could do everything by that point. It was a lot of fun. Next, I want to do a magic build from the start someday, which has always sounded pretty broken and slays bosses like a joke. It's always much more fun playing melee builds in these to me though, but I love to go back and experiment. I almost had a weird existential freakout playing Demon's once. Despite it brutally beating you down, there was one time I cleared out this enormous bridge of enemies that also has this roaring dragon who flies over it repeatedly unleashing fire and melting anything in its path. There is a way to take this dragon out permanently and when I did that one time... the silence was deafening. I suddenly felt scared and alone in its dead world, there I was this floating soul of a corpse completely and utterly alone in this giant fortress with no creatures, animals, birds, insects, or any other living thing in sight. I suddenly missed that roaring dragon and its panicked attacks, because what can you do when you're literally all alone? I can never put this experience into words, but it was freaky and awesome. Nothing is more haunting and beautiful than Demon's Souls.
Then there's the "hub" world, the Nexus. A hidden temple that teleports you around to the levels... further making the whole world disturbingly "detached" in ways I just can't even really explain. What IS the Nexus? What's outside of it? Where is it? The Monumental's? It's so surreal. I love it.
Tower of Latria is probably one of my favorite levels of all time in anything ever. I love how it plays with you too in ways I won't explain for one instance, but in terms of level design, the 3-1 section is extremely claustrophobic and suffocating. Then in 3-2, they literally take the walls away from you except... you probably want them back, those who have seen this portion of the level probably know exactly what I mean. I hope you're not afraid of heights.
Still one of my favorite boss themes in the entire franchise. Supremely subtle yet unnerving. 11/10
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 5:14:52 GMT -5
Don't quote me on this, but I think Xeo kind of likes this game. I almost had a weird existential freakout playing Demon's once. Despite it brutally beating you down, there was one time I cleared out this enormous bridge of enemies that also has this roaring dragon who flies over it repeatedly unleashing fire and melting anything in its path. There is a way to take this dragon out permanently and when I did that one time... the silence was deafening. I suddenly felt scared and alone in its dead world, there I was this floating soul of a corpse completely and utterly alone in this giant fortress with no creatures, animals, birds, insects, or any other living thing in sight. I suddenly missed that roaring dragon and its panicked attacks, because what can you do when you're literally all alone? I can never put this experience into words, but it was freaky and awesome. Nothing is more haunting and beautiful than Demon's Souls. This was beautifully put. As far as games I want to play but I can't because of technical limitations go, Demon's Souls is right at the top of my list. That said, I'm not sure how down I am with the whole online component. I'm either playing single player or MP. I think a hybrid system like that would just take me out of the game, but maybe playing it firsthand would have changed my mind - not that it matters, since the game recently went permanently offline. That said, I think a remastered version for the PS4 is not unlikely and should bring the online components back. A PC port would also be ideal, but I doubt that's going to happen. Rather, I believe PS3 emulation is going to become a viable option fairly soon.
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Post by Ex on Jan 25, 2019 11:52:29 GMT -5
While I'm sure it's interesting, I don't think the online aspect is crucial at all. I played through Demon's Souls completely offline, and had an amazing time. Demon's Souls is worth buying a PS3 for. On its own merit this game is solely worth the cost of a used PS3. Demon's Souls really is the system's killer app. I don't presently have time to type the amount of paragraphs my love for this game deserves, but I'll try to make some succinct points. I love Demon's Souls because it loves me. What does that mean? That means this game actually respects its player's intelligence and self-reliance, and rewards those aspects in droves. Demon's Souls refuses to ever hold its player's hand, instead opting to smack their hand every time they do something dumb. No matter how strong the player becomes, if ever they falter even to the lowliest enemy, the player will be punished severely. Demon's Souls demands excellence, it demands full attention. And in doing so, it provides a glorious mountain to climb with a hard-won vista eclipsing all others. You may think you're good at video games, you may have beaten some hard video games, but until you've tackled Demon's Souls you don't know what a real fight is.
“How much can you know about yourself if you've never been in a fight?” ― Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club Contrary to popular opinion, Demon's Souls does have multiple difficulty levels: Fat rolling heavy armor + big sword = Nightmare Difficulty
Fast rolling light armor (or naked) + spear = Normal Difficulty
Magic user + ranged spells = Easy Difficulty I beat this game on Nightmare difficulty and not on purpose. I simply didn't know what I was doing. I thought big thick armor made sense, but that's the price of making assumptions towards Demon's Souls. I had a helluva a time and I wouldn't take a single one of those arduous moments back. With great controls, an excellent combat system, and consistent challenge Demon's Souls gameplay is second to none.
Besides its legendary difficulty, Demon's Souls is so much more. This game is BEAUTIFUL, in a dark gothic Western fantasy sense. If one didn't know better, one might never imagine this game was made by a Japanese studio. There's not a single ounce of typical Japanese RPG tropes here. The locales are often breathtaking, and the atmosphere is off the charts. Besides being challenging and beautiful, Demon's Souls also has a very interesting plot. The story starts bare, but builds and builds into a tale you wouldn't expect.
Stop playing whatever banal crap you're playing and go beat Demon's Souls. Play it blind, figure it all out for yourself, and have the absolute time of your life.
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Post by Xeogred on Jan 25, 2019 19:18:49 GMT -5
Fat rolling heavy armor + big sword = Nightmare Difficulty
Fast rolling light armor (or naked) + spear = Normal Difficulty
Magic user + ranged spells = Easy Difficulty Pretty damn funny. Yup, for a simple basic tip to others maybe reading this I'll just say don't underestimate the ROLL and Endurance. I agree and maybe don't agree a little on your first point. I literally have no idea what I can compare Demon's Souls too, Western or Eastern... I guess Berserk is the closest thing in some ways (with From even having some direct nods among a few weapons), which also tends to feel a bit more Western (first half of the manga at least). My main point here is that I don't normally gravitate towards medieval settings and stories in just about every medium, I certainly like some movies and other games out there in the genre but then some of the high fantasy stuff or whatnot makes me roll my eyes a bit too. That stuff often feels so trope filled and cliche' to me, but Souls is in another realm and they are just so perfect to me, I wouldn't change a thing. I'm sure Miyazaki pulled many influences from a lot of novels or whatnot, but they truly crafted their own unique world here. I still have a hard time imagining a Western studio could developed this game. I think it's easier to say it transcends boundaries and is one of the best examples of dark fantasy done flawlessly in any medium out there. Not sure if this makes any sense though, since like I said, I agree with what you're getting at in ways too heh. Feels like it came from another planet!
I know I can be a hype machine that needs to cool the engine sometimes, but yeah I fully believe it'll blow you away whenever you get to it @tsumuri . I'm sure you'll catch some of the intricate side stories, sub plots, and lore dashed in there too, since Souls isn't too far off from the likes of Silent Hill or other horror tales in ways. The Maiden Astraea character arc in particular... yet another thing the sequels never really have anything remotely similar to. As for ONLINE, yeah I don't want to oversell that element at all. Like Ex said, he played it offline fresh just recently. I think it'll always be a fun thing to look back on with my initial experience and the way it's integrated fits in lore wise, the obtuse messages left on the ground for you to read from other players being that of other lost souls roaming the realm. But yeah, it's not vital at all, nor should anyone ever worry about overthinking the World Tendency gimmick either. I bet Ex didn't even think about it once in the majority of his run. It's the weirdest piece of experimentation From tried in these, but thankfully it still doesn't hinder the experience at all and is effortless to ignore. I do enjoy the online "community/exploration together" element that these games have but I have also played several purely offline and it's totally fine that way too. And to clarify above, when I did my Platinum run 100%'ing the game it was done all offline, so you can truly do everything offline if you want. But even a one full run is more than enough to cover mostly everything. Miyazaki once said this guy was his favorite boss in some old interviews, heh. I can't stress enough how special Demon's is even compared to its spawned sequels. I know we can't talk about those here yet but in a roundabout way, I can just say that Demon's has so much balanced variety it's amazing. Every boss is uniquely weird and different, every area is sprawling and huge imprinting itself into your memories, the music like nothing else, and like Ex said the story unfolds more and more as it goes in fascinatingly weird ways... the ending is still one of my favorites ever, it goes full bizarre. I think Demon's is more surreal, weirder, and obtuse than its sequels, maybe the King's Field and Shadow Tower games have similar vibes closer to it. It's not a knock on the sequels becoming more mainstream or dumbed down at all, but the production of Demon's just comes off like one of those events where all the stars truly aligned and something untouchable was crafted.
For something not too deep here, you could easily make some goofy comparison to Mega Man when it comes to level selection. Once you clear 1-1, you get access to leveling up your stats from the nice blind lady and can then warp to the other main areas that each have three main sections of their own. So you can tackle levels in different orders if you want. Another thing the sequels never really did again, so that's reason #194045 for something that makes Demon's uniquely special.
May the Maiden in Black bless this great man:
Probably one of the best character creation/main menu themes ever, I think this tune immediately sets the tone letting you know you're about to enter the strangest of strange lands. Might be my favorite track in the OST.
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Post by Ex on Jan 25, 2019 19:51:30 GMT -5
I guess Berserk is the closest thing I wholly agree that Berserk had to have been an influence for Demon's Souls. That said, Berserk also skews much more closely to dark gothic Western fantasy than typical Japanese media does. I think the closest stuff I've seen to this kind of aesthetic would be certain Polish paintings, graphic novels, and death metal. We're getting way out in the weeds to go there, but my whole point was you won't find cliché JRPG tropes in this game. Oh yeah @tsumuri is a prime candidate for Demon's Souls. And although I don't think he'd enjoy the aesthetic, I do believe Sarge would enjoy the sheer challenge in this game. Oh I noticed the more I died, the harder things got. On starting a New Game offline, all worlds will be Neutral. World Tendency will then shift towards Black or White according to the player's actions. The server median has no effect while playing offline. When you load a game, your World Tendency status will be exactly the same as when you last quit that game. My World Tendency was almost always Black or damn near. I've said it before but, the KF games are about exploration with combat being secondary. Meanwhile the Souls games are the inverse. KF is only close to DeS in its atmosphere, to an extent. I'll say the original Shadow Tower is the closest to how DeS works mechanically. I agree, but there is one lamentation: And yes indeed the lore in DeS can get rather deep. Edit: BTW Xeogred speaking of the Mega Man level thing; I'd bet 90% of DeS players never beat 1-1. Of those that did, I'd wager of the remaining 10%, only 1% made it past 5-2. "Demon's Souls' Valley of Defilement, though, is a different story altogether. While 5-1 is fairly straightforward, and can even be completed fairly early in the game, 5-2 can't be called anything but absolute hell. Simply put, this nightmarish stretch drops players into a vast lake of poison, tasking them with finding the few safe spots of land in near-darkness. Keep in mind, though, your HP meter will be dropping perpetually throughout, and, thanks to the level's sticky swamp, your movement speed and dodging capabilities suffer a serious loss. Even if you struggled with Anor Londo's archers and the tricky projectile dodging within the Shrine of Amana, no other From Software creation has matched the Valley of Defilement in terms of sheer misery. If you can handle it, you truly deserve From Software's RPG-centric Medal of Honor." - US Gamer
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Post by Sarge on Jan 25, 2019 20:34:11 GMT -5
Well, I definitely beat 1-1, anyway. I can't remember when I stopped playing, but I probably wasn't in the mood for a game that handed my head to me so many times. It's one of those "specific mood" things I have to be in.
I would say one thing: while Dark Souls might have been where the series really took off, Demon's Souls wasn't exactly overlooked, either. It did, after all, get a Greatest Hits rendition. Pretty sure that's the one I have.
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Post by Xeogred on Jan 25, 2019 21:34:35 GMT -5
The cut level is a shame. Here's a video showing off what it could have been. I forget if this was dug up in the actual files or just something a fan conceived, but it definitely looks like cut data. I love castle levels like Boletarian/Latria the most too... but I can see how some of the ideas found their way in later entries. I guess if this level were in the game it would have been a 12/10. Although Demon's Souls did receive a Greatest Hits release, I just don't see a remake/remaster or anything else happening again. The one negative to Demon's? It still seems as impenetrable as ever. No matter how big the branch of games it spawned got over the years, only a select few will even give Demon's a moment of their time. I have like five local friends that are fans of the later games and some of them have "sampled" Demon's with barely any updated reports to give me years later, so they obviously dropped it. They have nothing to say or share no interest when I hype up Demon's whenever these games get talked about, or other friends put in 0% effort into playing it even people I know that own a PS3. Why? Wish I had the answer. Maybe having never discovered somebody else in-person that has played and loved Demon's yet has made me pessimistic about it, but that's how it goes. And I see this same sentiment across the whole internet around Demon's. It has that diehard strong niche' fanbase but gets overshadowed by its own children. It's fun to see people enjoy the later games... but when I see someone play or love Demon's then I know they're the real deal and in another league. I can talk about all the others for days too, but Demon's is really the only one I go to bat for all the time when I can. I guess some people just can't see the diamond treasure trove that's right in front of them.
It'd be like walking around touting the Mega Man X games are the best things ever made and never touching the NES games.
(the irony is how Demon's has a better framerate and runs/feels better than original Dark on PS3 to me). Not like this even hardly matters either though, Demon's is JUST 10 years old! If people think it's too dated... we're done. I can't take them seriously.
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Post by toei on Jan 25, 2019 23:03:38 GMT -5
It'd be like walking around touting the Mega Man X games are the best things ever made and never touching the NES games. When the best thing to do is obviously never touching any of them. Demon's Souls is on my list when I get a PS3, though. I don't really remember what else was on there, beyond Yakuza 3, 4 & 5 and 3D Dot Game Heroes.
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