|
Post by Sarge on Mar 6, 2019 18:04:35 GMT -5
Zillion 2 might be a great target, actually. It's apparently not very long, either, so I might have time to get through it tonight.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Mar 6, 2019 18:09:39 GMT -5
Zillion 2 might be a great target, actually. It's apparently not very long, either, so I might have time to get through it tonight. I don't know, it's a bit challenging to beat in a night, I'd say. Probably possible, but it took me longer than that. It's definitely a game that becomes more fun as you get better at it, too, so I wouldn't recommend using save states.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Mar 6, 2019 18:17:22 GMT -5
Might be. Limited or unlimited continues? We'll see if I'm truly the "lord of platformers". (I think my "reputation" might be somewhat exaggerated. I did pull that accidental no-death of Game Boy Batman, though, so there's that.)
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Mar 6, 2019 23:02:40 GMT -5
I did pull that accidental no-death of Game Boy Batman, though, so there's that. You also beat Battletoads and Holy Diver legit. And you've beaten more platformers than most of us have even played combined. Edit: Zillion 2 is very good, but I enjoyed the original Zillion even more.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Mar 6, 2019 23:16:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I ain't beating it tonight, that's for sure. Not without save states. I used a few, but really didn't hit a true wall until Stage 7. And guess what? That's not a platforming stage! Yeah, I'm having a bit of trouble with the shooting segment there. I don't know if that's the last sequence. I kinda hope so. I'll probably give it another go from the start tomorrow night when maybe I won't burn out so fast. EDIT: I lied. I jumped back in, and managed to clear that stage. And the game. With save states. Sorry, toei ! I'll need a bit more practice to get through it without them. I think it's specifically Stage 7 that's going to be the biggest roadblock; that cannon run is pretty brutal, and if you don't have the full-powered shots, well, that makes it much, much harder. The platforming stages themselves aren't so bad once you know what to expect, and the last boss also has a pretty predictable pattern. I can't say this was my favorite so far, though. I don't think it's bad, but I liked Spellcaster, Ninja Gaiden, and Aladdin more so far. I will still try to dive in and see how well I do not using save states. I still can't believe there's no continues... ...but I just had another "read the frickin' manual" moment. Turns out you can swap to your rescued teammates in those stages! What the what?! New life meter and everything. I also just did a Stage 7 and 8 run from the start, and only lost one life (and that was against the final boss with only a sliver of health), so I'm pretty confident I can get through it without save states. And wait, what? There are continues? It's in the manual, so it's fair game! Right now, my opinion of it is a 6/10. Decent, not amazing. I plan on giving its forebear a shot, however, which might be more my speed. EDIT 2: Never you mind, I just did a legit 1cc clear. Woo! That was... intense. Very intense. You weren't kidding, toei , things amp up considerably when you're operating without a safety net. (I did still save-state because it made me feel better? I never used them, but for some reason it keeps me from getting quite so jittery.) I still think it's in that 6 to 6.5 range, and I have no doubts the shooting stage would have been easier had I used the helpers. Which I didn't, again.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Mar 7, 2019 0:52:32 GMT -5
I just did a legit 1cc clear. Nice job man. Now you're ready for the original Zillion! - Edit: Despite being super tired, I decided to crack on the SMS version of Sonic the Hedgehog 2 tonight. I cleared the first two zones (six acts), and saved at the beginning of zone 3. Thus far this has been a marked improvement on the original SMS Sonic. It's weird though. The first zone is about riding mine carts underground. The second zone was all about hang gliding. It's crazy. I'll try to finish it tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Mar 7, 2019 1:00:21 GMT -5
Sarge I'm glad you played it, regardless. That relentless intensity is a huge quality in my eyes - the fact that so many NES and SNES side-scrollers feel so sedate is a big part of why I can't get into them (slow and clunky Castlevania especially - those games are fundamentally boring to me). Intense games force you to get engaged and focused in a way that few things do for me. This is a quality you find in the best arcade games, and in a number of Genesis games, but it's very rare on 8-bit platforms. I also really like all the variations they spin out of the straightforward mechanics through the level design - if you pay close attention, you'll notice that literally each level adds a new twist. For example, you'll find those pods in the ceiling from which enemies come down in one platforming level, then in the next, they'll be coming from the ceiling or the floor, so you're always having to adapt. There is absolutely no filler. The game throws everything it has to throw at you, then it ends. I was really impressed by the level of control in the auto-running levels, too. Things are going fast, but you can make that vehicle go exactly where you want it to go, with a ton of range to the jumps you can pull.* (Since you mentioned Spellcaster, you might have noticed that the powered-up shot that goes through an enemy and hits the next appears in both games, feeling pretty much the same - I wouldn't be surprised if the same people worked on both games). Personally I use the companion switch during the last shooter level, other than that, I'm good. No save states! I liked the game enough that I became a fan of auto-runners (which was solidified by playing Atomic Runner right after, another great - and unique! - game you might not like as much as I do) AND watched the Zillion anime (which is worth checking out if you're not against episodic stuff - great art and designs, fun characters and action scenes, and moments of impressive animation, though it does hit a slump towards the end). Ex Two of my childhood friends had Sonic 2 with their Game Gear. I think it might have been a pack-in game at some point? I'll have to look it up in the morning. I remember that mine cart ride very well, because I rarely beat that damn first boss when I played it at their house. No rings + weird bouncing balls was more than I could handle at that stage. Honestly, he's probably harder than Genesis Sonic 1 & 2's final bosses. That night sky hang glider screenshot is beautiful, btw. The Master System & GG could do some truly beautiful things. *Contrast that with Moon Patrol's controls, which always retained a bit of mystery to me, specifically the way momentum works and how it affects the distance of your jumps. There'd be times where I felt I really grasped it, then a few moments later I'd pull a surprisingly long jump against my best effort and land onto a landmine.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Mar 7, 2019 11:40:18 GMT -5
I don't think the NES lacks faster action games, but it does certainly have its share of slower ones. Those don't bother me, as intimated before. I do think your comparison to arcade games holds true, though; it reminds me more of earlier shooters/platformers in that setting. That has positives and negatives, though: the game is very simple overall, and while it certainly varies things a little bit, I found myself hoping for just a smidge more depth. Still, there's room in this world for solid and unpretentious games like Zillion II.
Moon Patrol's jumping mechanics are weird, but really it's just when I'm going slow that it becomes an issue. Holding back will eventually make it where you can barely hop. Once you let off holding back, though, you'll surge forward to the "default" position, and that monkeys with your jumps again. There's also a small slowdown that comes with jumps (or landing from jumps?) that can cause you to short hop if you're having to slow down and jump a lot in a row.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Mar 7, 2019 12:59:31 GMT -5
I don't think the NES lacks faster action gamesMoon Patrol's jumping mechanics are weird, but really it's just when I'm going slow that it becomes an issue. Holding back will eventually make it where you can barely hop. Once you let off holding back, though, you'll surge forward to the "default" position, and that monkeys with your jumps again. There's also a small slowdown that comes with jumps (or landing from jumps?) that can cause you to short hop if you're having to slow down and jump a lot in a row. What are they, though? Honestly, none really come to mind that are both fast and eventful / intense. I assume there's probably a few shmups like that, but those I've tried so far suffer from really bad slowdowns when there starts to be a lot of enemies on screen. Games like Ninja Gaiden (or even Contra, from what I've seen so far) aren't slow, but they're not fast, either. Regarding Moon Patrol, the problem with holding back is that there are different degrees to the hop it produces depending on how long you hold it and from what previous speed, but at the end of it, it covers so little distance that it creates the opposite problem. In general it almost seems like letting go of forward slows you down as fast as holding back, though only up to a point, after which you'll need to hold back to go even slower. And as you mentioned, landing affects your speed, and it seems like the little bumps in the road do as well. It's all surprisingly complex, and it's pretty impressive for the time (feels like actual physics are applied to the tank), but personally I prefer clear and precise controls to realistic controls in a game like this. Still liked it, though. - I played a little bit of Golvellius. I'm pretty much done with exploring the second overworld section, and ready to hit up the "dungeon" / action level. I like it well enough so far, except the requirement for accessing the dungeon was incredibly obtuse, and the hint provided in-game was not nearly adequate. One of the fairies in the area tells you to "push the blue rock". There's a screen with about 15-20 blue rocks in it, populated by the most annoying enemies in the game (those damn bats - bats are annoying in literally every 8-bit game, it seems), and you can try pushing those rocks as long as you like, but nothing will happen. Turns out you actually have to hit one of them five times. That's some Castlevania 2 / Ninja-level BS, right there*. Why would you read "push" and think "oh, I have to hit each of those rocks 5 times until I find the right one"? Unless it's a mistranslation, of course. So I won't hesitate to use a walkthrough if I run into some nonsense like that again, because that's less a puzzle and more a "bet you can't beat this game!" 80s relic. *Ninja is another SMS game I like - it's an overhead run-'n-gun, but there's this one super obscure requirement to access the final level where you need to find scrolls throughout the stages. Most can be found through normal means, but one is hidden in the same way - you have to hit one of many pillars in a particular stage a specific number of times - 5 or 10 or whatever - with no indication that it's what you should do.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Mar 7, 2019 13:06:39 GMT -5
I don't want to digress too far from what this thread's point is. But have you played Summer Carnival '92: Recca for Famicom yet?
|
|