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Post by bonesnapdeez on May 6, 2019 13:50:56 GMT -5
I thought it was interesting you said the second game has yet to click with you, since the first game was only written as an afterthought apparently. It's just that the first game has superior pacing.
Literally one of the first things Suikoden II has you doing, is going around a base cleaning up oil spills from floors with a rag. That rubbed me the wrong way. I'm sure Suikoden II eventually turns into a great JRPG. I will give it another chance someday. That screenshot makes me want to punch myself right in the nards. Reminds me of the opening of Ys VIII where a character literally says "We need to run errands now." Shut off the game, removed it from the console, returned it to its case, never touched it again. Games that are willingly and purposefully engineered to waste my time bring out the Bone wrath like nothing else. I still want to play the first Suikoden someday. My wife got me the first two games for Christmas 2017.
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Post by Ex on May 6, 2019 14:11:47 GMT -5
That screenshot makes me want to punch myself right in the nards. Games that are willingly and purposefully engineered to waste my time bring out the Bone wrath like nothing else. You loved Grandia right?
Do you remember this at the very start?... The reason I quit Grandia, was right at the very beginning of the game. You have to wander around town, digging in trash bins, trying to find "treasure". Which is actually junk that some kids (whom you aren't familiar with yet) are pretending is treasure. Starting your JRPG off with a juvenile scavenger hunt is just DUMB city. Completely turned me off the game right away.
I'm sure Grandia gets WAY better after this initial nadir, but damn that sucked. I still want to play the first Suikoden someday.
If you didn't enjoy Suikoden I'd be fairly surprised, and I'd never recommend another game to you again.
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Post by Sarge on May 6, 2019 14:44:13 GMT -5
I agree that scavenger hunt right off the bat is just... not a good choice. But yes, the game does get better.
Another game that does this is Dragon Warrior VII. That start is super duper slow, and it had me thinking I'd wasted my money. Good thing it got a lot better!
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Post by bonesnapdeez on May 6, 2019 14:53:21 GMT -5
Justin's mom was the only reason I got through that opening.
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Post by Ex on May 6, 2019 17:14:01 GMT -5
Justin's mom was the only reason I got through that opening. Hmm, well I can kinda see it. I may make another crack at Grandia this year. It's kinda soul cleansing to play the "makes you feel good" kinda JRPGs. I'm talking colorful, jubilant, "you feel like you're on an adventure with friends" stuff. Lots of JRPGs attempt that "feel", but fail miserably due to terrible plots and bad game design. I can however think of some that pull it off; Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star, Paper Mario, Mega Man Legends, Zwei II all come to mind. If Grandia captures that same sense of joie de vivre, I can push past the clumsy opening act.
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Post by Sarge on May 6, 2019 17:19:44 GMT -5
Hey, don't forget the Mom from Grandia III. Guess the series has got a thing for 'em. Grandia definitely gets a strong adventure feel to it. As another publication described it some years ago, it's basically Lunar on steroids. I can think of worse descriptions.
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Post by toei on May 6, 2019 22:20:09 GMT -5
Honestly though, the oil thing in Suikoden 2 probably takes up less than 5 minutes of the game's time. It's not a legitimate issue, and it sets up just who the character is at this point in the game and what his position is within the game's story. The Grandia scavenger hunt is also really short, probably, cause I forgot all about it. For some reason, though, I'm not a big fan of either game. I had more fun with Grandia 2, even if the story's pretty dumb.
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Post by Ex on May 7, 2019 0:30:35 GMT -5
Honestly though, the oil thing in Suikoden 2 probably takes up less than 5 minutes of the game's time. It's not a legitimate issue Sure, it may only take five minutes of your actual lifespan to run around and virtually clean up oil spills with a rag. But that's still a completely asinine thing to do the player. This game could have had an NPC say something like, "Heh, I bet you get tired of doing the dirty jobs around here new guy.", and that would have accomplished the same character building block, without actually wasting the player's free time doing menial nonsense. Nobody buys a JRPG so they can be a janitor.
It was still an inelegant way to initially introduce the player to the protagonists and their town. Although I can understand forgetting that bit, as it's only like 1% of the overall experience. Unfortunately it's also the initial 1% of the experience. At that point the player isn't invested yet, and the instant busy work was more like a stick than a carrot. For me anyway.
I do plan to give both of these games another chance someday though, despite my gripes.
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Post by Ex on May 7, 2019 9:53:40 GMT -5
I'd like to actually participate in this month, since I've been pretty bad in the past about it. Looking forward to seeing what you play. I too will be participating, just not right off the bat this time, due to being in the midst of an epic WRPG. It makes me sad too, because I loved FFT. I still haven't played the GBA or DS entries, because they seemed designed to cater to kids with the plot/presentation. Is it possible to beat these games without grinding for dozens of hours? Is the super grindo stuff meant to be optional? This is a very easy SRPG, but it's not short. There are actually two independent campaigns built in, each taking between 30-45 hours a piece, easily. FM3 is great though, lots of fun. I've only beaten one of its campaigns (back in 2007), I'd like to finish the other campaign eventually. What hurts it for me is how limited your squad is, IIRC you're limited to only 4 wanzers at a time. That's a big difference compared to the epic battles of say FM4 or FM5. But those successive games had a different demographic in mind. FM3 was the most "casual" entry of the entire series. PS1 howabout this (the first game in the pack). I appreciate you'd even consider that game. Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel is absolutely the very best SRPG I've beaten. That said, FT:BoS is definitely beyond the depth of any Japanese strategy game I've seen. It's honestly not for everybody.
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Post by dunpeal2064 on May 7, 2019 10:01:46 GMT -5
Ha, I posted my post having not realized how late to the discussion I was, so I thought I'd delete and read through everything I missed, but you beat me to the punch! The later FFT games, visually, definitely feel more child-like, but they are quite interesting mechanically. Feels more like a sandbox to play with SRPG mechanics in, but not much more than that. Disgaea, at least the first game, can definitely be beaten without grinding at all. I think I was around level 50 or so when I "beat" the game, and my save file ended with the characters well over level 400. All that is for the optional stuff, some of which is in the "true ending" ballpark, but most of which is doing these 100-floor dungeon runs to get ultimate weapons. I will say, I had a great time with the first Disgaea. Its not a game I'd dump 500 hours into ever again, but I think playing through the main story (Which isn't overly grindy or long) is worth it. Its very silly and quirky, but its well done. Appreciate the recs as always, you actually threw out 2 games in particular that I was already heavily considering there! gonna have something picked out and started up before the day ends, so I'll report back in ^^
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