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Post by Sarge on Nov 10, 2021 16:58:23 GMT -5
I dunno, I think some of your more Euro-jank WRPGs have some of that feel, although Souls is clearly more polished. And by that metric, there really aren't many JRPGs that you could point to that play like Souls, either. Although I don't think its combat is that unique - not mechanically, anyway. It's more the precision required and penalty for failure being so high, making it more akin to playing an "NES-hard" game.
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Post by Xeogred on Nov 10, 2021 17:17:30 GMT -5
Nioh would be a funny wrinkle in this mix. The dozen or so different stat menus in that game would make Matsuno blush. If Nioh isn't an ARPG, I've lost all connection to reality. The solution... Souls is the Souls-like genre. But really, I need you to do your homework and play these games to really speak on them Sarge . Even though your intel is mostly accurate. But speaking of "Euro-junk WRPG's" (no clue what those might be) and Souls in the same sentence sounds like disservice to my majestic From. If the Souls games are Western influenced, well they did it better than the West ever has.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 10, 2021 17:22:24 GMT -5
Euro-jank, thank you very much. But when I think of games like that, I think of stuff like Gothic, Risen, Divinity II: Ego Draconis, Two Worlds - games that have high aspirations but tend to be really wonky at times on a mechanical level.
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Post by Xeogred on Nov 10, 2021 17:32:18 GMT -5
I have always wondered if the Gothic games were kind of in the same vein. Been meaning to give them a shot sometime.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 10, 2021 17:37:39 GMT -5
Only sort of, from what I can see. Obvious Western stylings and real-time combat, but as mentioned, super-duper janky.
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Post by Ex on Nov 10, 2021 17:37:45 GMT -5
Yeah the closest thing I can think of is Gothic 1 & 2, and Severed: Blade of Darkness. Those may have had some influence on FromSoftware's early "Souls" days. Xeogred - How "open" is Dark Souls' "open world"? Is it wide open, or more of a cobweb of interconnected areas?
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Post by Sarge on Nov 10, 2021 17:39:37 GMT -5
Oh, man, I always forget about Severed. Yep, can definitely see how it's Souls-adjacent.
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Post by Xeogred on Nov 10, 2021 17:50:37 GMT -5
Yeah the closest thing I can think of is Gothic 1 & 2, and Severed: Blade of Darkness. Those may have had some influence on FromSoftware's early "Souls" days. Xeogred - How "open" is Dark Souls' "open world"? Is it wide open, or more of a cobweb of interconnected areas? The latter. You'll probably see why some people sometimes joke Dark Souls is everything 3D Castlevania could have been. It's more Metroidvania than anything "open world", but you're free to do many things in whatever order. So that's mainly what separates it from Demon's. The main Nexus styled hub is just right there in the main game world with a few branching paths.
I think Bloodborne is the closest thing to its style level design wise, it's just even more claustrophobic and meticulously interwoven.
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Post by Ex on Nov 10, 2021 22:11:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification Xeogred . Perhaps Elden Ring will be legitimately open world. While Severance: Blade of Darkness and Gothic 1 & 2 may have had some influence on, and to an extent resemble, the "Souls" games, the reality is those action-WRPGs were outliers compared to their contemporaries. Pre- Dark Souls, action-WRPGs tended to be more of the Elder Scrolls, KOTOR, and Diablo style (especially the Diablo style) variety. Post- Dark Souls, there have been action- WRPGs created in that vein. Such titles as Lords of the Fallen, The Surge, and Mortal Shell come to mind. But we've also seen such aping from non-FromSoftware action- JRPGs like Nioh, Dragon's Dogma, and Code Vein. (Even China is getting in on the action with Wuchang: Fallen Feathers.) I'm a stickler for point of origin however, because that infuses the essence of authenticity. Writing subjectively; I've sampled western-created RPGs that attempted to simulate a JRPG experience and they failed miserably. Just as if a Japanese developer attempted to make an Infinity Engine type WRPG, it just wouldn't come across as feeling authentic. When I played through Demon's Souls, it felt Japanese in spirit from top to bottom. And Demon's Souls also includes an experience point system allowing the player to level up their character. Dark Souls also includes an experience point system for leveling up. When you level up in these games, you increase player-chosen-stats and numerical character level, not just say gain another heart as you would in Zelda. These are reasons why I consider Demon's Souls and its FromSoftware created successors action- JRPGs.
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Post by Xeogred on Nov 10, 2021 23:41:42 GMT -5
Everyone apes from Dark Souls too, when Demon's Souls came first and we can make some reaches here but I think it'd be hard to come up with much that seems anything quite like Demon's Souls back in 2009. Outside of some wild blend of all of From's own projects prior (King's Field, Shadow Tower, maybe their adventure games, and some Otogi in there). To this day Demon's is a surreal, unapologetically bizarre game, in incredible ways. And this isn't to say From's ever lost their way or "gone mainstream" with refining some of that formula from Dark Souls and on, but even they themselves will probably never make something like Demon's ever again. I'm not trying to give Demon's some kind of nostalgia fused mystical win here either, but yeah none of these modern Souls clones go for anything quite like Demon's, including From's own material. A one in a million game there. Who knows what the heck all influenced it in the end, but it doesn't get much more unique than Demon's Souls. I've even seen many Dark Souls or Bloodborne only fans try and go back to Demon's and still have a hard time handling its obtuse nature. Demon's Souls is very special to me if it's not obvious.
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