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Post by anayo on Jul 31, 2019 18:20:00 GMT -5
This is the topic where I post articles and videos about the erosion of consumer ownership rights of digital video games. Anyone else who wants to post their own relevant findings can do so, too.
Most recently I saw this reference in a Digital Foundry video about the port of Doom 1, 2, and 3 to modern consoles where they said old previously available versions for XBOX 360 and Android have been de-listed and are no longer available for download:
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Post by Xeogred on Jul 31, 2019 19:37:45 GMT -5
PLEASE LOGIN TO YOUR BETHESDA.NET ACCOUNT TO VIEW THIS POST From what I've gathered, the Doom 1-2 Bethesda.net login was supposed to be for some Doom "Slayers" Club for extra achievements or something weird. It wasn't supposed to be thrown at everyone, but I bet Bethesda is lying out their ass. It's downright hilarious they added in DRM to a 1993 game. Anyways, Doom 1-2 were delisted from XBLA in the past and returned eventually, so I'm not too worried about Doom per se. I could see all of these returning to the old platforms again and maybe it was just a licensing thing, but who knows.
Now when it comes to other, possibly smaller companies and IP's that get delisted forever, yeah that's nightmare fuel.
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Post by Sarge on Jul 31, 2019 20:09:06 GMT -5
This is an excellent thread. I, for one, do not welcome our DRM and streaming overlords.
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Post by Ex on Jul 31, 2019 20:39:28 GMT -5
I've said it before, I'll say it again; if you buy anything digitally that uses online verified DRM, you do not own that thing, you are leasing it. Yes you are leasing all those Steam games folks.
Another thing that sucks is mobile games that are OS version dependent. Sure is fun to buy a new phone, with an updated OS, only to find out some of your older digital games won't run on it. Not because the OS couldn't do it, but because those apps haven't had their certifications upgraded for compliance.
I guess we'll talk about digital storefronts shutting down entirely some other day. Wherein you no longer have the ability at all to re-download games you bought from the store previously.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2019 8:04:39 GMT -5
This right here is why for me GOG ------> Steam/Epic Store/etc. That said, Steam is probably the best non-GOG online store thanks to its many quality of life features and user reviews. But yeah, as a free marketeer I'm a big believer that there should be a very distinct line between leasing and purchasing a product. I'm also wary of Google Stadia and the whole 'games as a service' thing. I wonder if that's really going to work out for them. Again, there should a very distinct line between a product you buy (hairbrush) and a service (getting a haircut). Also, while I don't play online games myself, most of those games are gonna die/are dying/have been dying as soon as they are no longer profitable and the devs pull the plug on them. And just like that the game is gone unless: 1) the game code somehow gets released or leaked, 2) super dedicated fans manage to reverse engineer the game (I believe this was the case of SW Galaxies).
Anyway, that's all explained much more eloquently in this rather long but worthwhile video:
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Post by Ex on Aug 1, 2019 9:33:30 GMT -5
I'm also wary of Google Stadia and the whole 'games as a service' thing. There have been a lot of attempts at streaming games (or "cloud gaming") before. OnLive was probably the first big one. Gaikai was another notable attempt. Google has the benefit of very deep pockets, but I'm still wary to think Stadia will be successful. None of the earlier attempts thus far have worked out long term, for a very simple reason. Internet speed. These game streaming companies tend to originate from developers who live in technologically dense urban areas (Silicon Valley or Seattle for example) where awesome internet is taken for granted. They fail to realize that much of the world, including vast swaths of the USA, have terrible internet speeds and inconsistent connection reliability. This is why the next generation of consoles will still include physical media capability.
Now when/if the day ever comes where most of the world has quality internet, then steaming gaming would really take off. I'm talking about in the capacity of replacing physical gaming completely. The vast majority of modern gamers favor immediate gratification over long term sustainability of releases. To their short sighted detriment.
By that I mean, it's quite likely once streamed games are gone from a cloud/server based service, they will be GONE permanently. I'm talking about games that were explicitly designed to run on server farms and be streamed. The games will require proprietary server configurations and unique hardware to render. These games will be owned by the streaming publisher. When the publisher decides to delist one of those games, it's likely to be lost to the ether after that.* The streaming gamers of tomorrow's world will have a much harder time satiating the nostalgia of their youth.
*As one example; we've already seen such behavior with Nintendo dumping their DSi and Wii eShops, permanently scuttling those shop's exclusives as a result.
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Post by Sarge on Aug 1, 2019 12:17:53 GMT -5
Yep. I don't even have what's necessary to get 720p gaming, much less 4K or whatever jazz they think folks are going for now.
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Post by hooplehead on Aug 1, 2019 14:46:22 GMT -5
@tsumuri - totally agree on the online gaming front. They all have an undisclosed expiration date reliant on the servers and the community. Not to go too off-topic, but after my gaming hiatus, I felt so out of touch hearing about all these “lifestyle” online games with dedicated streamers and events and so on. I think online gaming and digital distribution go hand in hand for that reason. It’s the unspoken agreement that they have a shelf life. Most people only play what’s of the current generation (until they get suckered in by nostalgia-bait marketing for remasters/collections/remakes). It’s seen as disposable, just like most media is. There’s a reason most contemporary movie knowledge only stretches back to the 70’s and not further. Games are the same way. But I’ll be curious if what happened with Microsoft and their eBook store will ever happen to one of Steam’s competitors. www.bbc.com/news/technology-47810367Perhaps we’ll see more of this with other types of media. Just look at all the streaming services that are branching off from Netflix and Amazon by companies like Disney and NBC. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see that happen with games, which of course means some of those Steam competitors are going to go belly up. And even then, Ex is right to bring up Nintendo’s Wii shop and DSi shop. Consoles will only support their online services until they’re no longer profitable. The Wild West of media distribution is starting, all the more reason to stick to the retro stuff.
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Post by Sarge on Aug 1, 2019 14:52:38 GMT -5
I've actually experienced a distributor going belly-up. There was a short-lived indie distribution service called Desura, and I had games there from various Indie Royale bundles (that were quite good!). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desuraen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_RoyaleThe movie streaming service Ultraviolet also went down recently. I believe content was moved to Vudu.
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Post by Xeogred on Aug 1, 2019 17:10:48 GMT -5
I hope that Google gets curb stomped out of the field. I've grown utterly sick of them for far more reasons outside of gaming and I'll spare the rant (heck I'm a sucker using their Fiber right now).
I have no interest in a purely streaming future. However there's some things about this stuff that don't really bug me though. I ask myself, do I ever seriously envision my life at some point going forward without an internet connection available at home? That has not been the case for the last decade already, so no. Steam being "always online" has never been a personal issue. And I just don't think I'll live to see the day Steam closes shop or whatever, maybe by the time it does I won't even care by then anyways. I value my physical libraries far more and would still have plenty to do.
Absolute shame to see that Nintendo of all people, are really pushing for this streaming/licensing future and want you in their eco system. It's easy to tell they'd drop physical in a heartbeat if they could. Just this week since I've been playing some Wii / U stuff again, I'm already wondering if I should plan ahead for the inevitable time they close down the Wii U shop next. 3DS too probably. At least with Steam, if you bought something that gets delisted, it still remains in our library for download whenever. You can even still find some official unused keys out there to redeem unlisted games as well. But Nintendo just straight up pulled the plug on the Wii there... hope everyone spent those lame Wii points.
I've done the WWE Network from time to time to watch some old school wrestling. Guess I'm in Amazon Prime's pocket and can stream stuff from them. But I've yet to ever try Netflix. I'm at the point in life where it IS a hassle for me to register more accounts somewhere and I don't want numerous monthly fee services running in the background. I'm both too lazy and good at saving my money. I still torrent anime when that's become a rarity apparently, though I support classic releases when I can and want. I just see myself becoming more of a hermit down the road once this service/streaming future (beyond gaming too) becomes more of a norm with the sheep that are humans.
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