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Post by Ex on Sept 14, 2020 21:40:13 GMT -5
This year the SEGA Saturn is 26 years old. It seems there are some fans of this console on HRG. So I figured hey let's remember it next. Here's a few questions to get the conversation started: Do you recall what you thought of the Saturn when you first learned of its existence? When and where did you first play the Saturn? Did you think the Saturn was going to be a hit for SEGA? Did you know the Saturn cost $399.00 when it debuted? (That's $680.00 in today's money.) Do you currently, or have you ever, owned a real Saturn console? What did you think of the Saturn's games versus the competition? What are your favorite Saturn releases (domestic and import)? - I'll be back with my own answers later.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 14, 2020 22:10:42 GMT -5
Appropriate to talk about now, given that it came out in the same year as the PSX in both the US and Japan... although infamously surprisingly early for retailers in the US.
> Do you recall what you thought of the Saturn when you first learned of its existence? > Did you think the Saturn was going to be a hit for SEGA?
I thought it was going to continue Sega's war with Nintendo. Yes, I thought it would be successful. Never did I imagine that they'd bungle things so badly. It was their market to lose, and lose it they did. While Nintendo's N64 shenanigans began their downfall with letting Sony into the race, Sega should have been there to pick up the pieces, and they weren't.
> When and where did you first play the Saturn?
Unlike the PSX, where I'm mostly guessing, I absolutely remember the first time I played a Saturn. It was in the same Toys "R" Us I mentioned before, but the demo game was Panzer Dragoon Zwei. I was so impressed by it that I felt we needed to track it down. I didn't realize it was the sequel when I played it, so we ended up picking up the PC port of Panzer Dragoon, which of course is also a fantastic game.
> Did you know the Saturn cost $399.00 when it debuted? (That's $680.00 in today's money.)
Probably. Lots of adverts, after all. My brain really couldn't even process that sort of money at the time, though. I never, ever at that point was able to get a brand new console at launch. I just knew I couldn't afford it.
> Do you currently, or have you ever, owned a real Saturn console?
Yep! I've actually got two of them, both Model 2 systems. One is stock, the other has been modded - twice. My old mod board died on me, and I had to replace it a few years back. I wish I'd gotten on the train slightly sooner, though. I passed up one on clearance in Walmart quite a few years before that, but eventually didn't buy it because I didn't know where I'd actually find games for it. I'm sure I would have figured it out, though, and possibly even gotten Panzer Dragoon Saga before it got ridiculously expensive. The modded one is still hooked up. When I want to play Saturn, it's easily the best way to play - Saturn emulation is very good, but not quite as robust as the PSX.
> What did you think of the Saturn's games versus the competition?
Extremely uneven. Lots of oddball titles that appealed to me, but still baffling short on the one genre I loved above all else, the JRPG. PSX was still my true love for those. Also, fantastic 2D games, especially fighters with the RAM cart expansion.
> What are your favorite Saturn releases (domestic and import)?
I literally bought and modded my first Saturn so I could play Panzer Dragoon Saga. It's still one of my favorite oddball RPGs that doesn't overstay its welcome (it can be finished in under 20 hours). Other memorable titles would be Shining the Holy Ark (probably my favorite first-person JRPG), Shining Force III (I still want to finish this!), Radiant Silvergun (fantastic shooter), Guardian Heroes (perhaps not as great in hindsight, but definitely bonkers stuff), and... a bunch of lower-tier stuff that I wanted to love but always seemed to bounce off of. I mean, really, the Saturn had a really tough time competing with the PSX for playtime, what with all the fantastic RPGs that were on there.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 23:52:02 GMT -5
"Hm, nothing seems good here." I was young, but the Saturn launch was forgettable to young me.
I'm a super late comer to the Saturn. Never had one growing up, I think I finally tried Saturn emulation in mid-2000s. I probably played one before 2011, but that's when I got mine.
Hahahaha
Of course, and I play it more often than the N64 or PS1 these days. Although it's modded for backups, I haven't actually played a backup on it in many, many years. Over 7 for sure. I've been tempted to sell it and get a Japanese one, since all my games except 3 are imports.
Shooters, shooters, shooters. I wish the Saturn could have done for platformers and run n guns what it did for shootemups. I blame the 3D craze for cutting short what could have been the best 2D games ever. And then we didn't get to see a proper resurgence until a full decade+ later.
Shooters, shooters, shooters. As I mentioned in the other thread, Metal Black, Strikers 1945 I/II, Sonic Wings Special, Battle Garegga, but also Dragon Force, Children of the Atom, Marvel Super Heroes, Vampire Savior. It's not actually my favorite Bomberman, but Saturn Bomberman supports something like 10 players. That's a big step up from the 5-player Super Bomberman III/IV.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 15, 2020 0:03:25 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, I've heard 10-player matches in Saturn Bomberman were complete, blissful chaos. I have a multi-tap (I might even have two), but I don't have nearly enough controllers!
I really need to learn how to play Dragon Force correctly.
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Post by Xeogred on Sept 15, 2020 15:39:14 GMT -5
Do you recall what you thought of the Saturn when you first learned of its existence? - Wait, Sega didn't stop after the Genesis/CD/32x?
When and where did you first play the Saturn? - I knew one kid in my entire childhood that had one. I think that was the only time I ever saw one in person, outside of stores and such, until I bought two modded ones many years later. I remember my neighbor had Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop, Night's, and maybe something else. It was bizarre and nothing really stuck with me compared to what I was playing on my N64 and my friend's all over with PSX's...
Did you think the Saturn was going to be a hit for SEGA? - See above. I don't know if I blocked some of it out of my memory, I'm certain I saw the Saturn in some magazines, but barely. I was still just a bit too young to keep up with the intricate details of release dates, publishers vs developers, etc. So um... no. It was pretty forgettable as a 90's kid, compared to the competition.
Did you know the Saturn cost $399.00 when it debuted? (That's $680.00 in today's money.) - In retrospect I've heard about this and how it didn't help the Saturn's failure in the West.
Do you currently, or have you ever, owned a real Saturn console? - Two modded ones. One can play burned games and the other Japanese/burned. A decade ago the burning process was so insane though, I haven't felt motivated to learn it again.
What did you think of the Saturn's games versus the competition? - Not good. Archaic controller for 3D evolution.
What are your favorite Saturn releases (domestic and import)? - NA.
Sorry SEGA. The Saturn meant very little to me and is still one I don't really care to dive into anymore. I burned a bunch of shmup games and had fun with those for a week or so, then boxes up my modded Saturn's... potentially forever.
I'm interested in Panzer Dragoon Saga and Deep Fear but that's about it.
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Post by toei on Sept 15, 2020 16:29:40 GMT -5
Do you recall what you thought of the Saturn when you first learned of its existence?I was a fan of both the Genesis and Sega's current 3d arcade games at the time, so I thought it looked amazing. When and where did you first play the Saturn?At the Blockbuster by my friend's house. They had one or two there you could play with Bugs and Panzer Dragoon. I thought those games were somewhat cool but they weren't really what I was interested in. Did you think the Saturn was going to be a hit for SEGA?
Yeah. Did you know the Saturn cost $399.00 when it debuted? (That's $680.00 in today's money.)Yup. The 3DO and even the CD-i were around the same price, so it seemed normal. I think the PSX was 299$? In Canada, it was 400$ for the PSX and 500$ for the Saturn. Do you currently, or have you ever, owned a real Saturn console?I owned one at the time, and I own a Japanese Saturn that may or may not be modded that I don't really use as I prefer to emulate. I got it from a friend who got it from a friend who got it in China. We played through Die Hard Arcade on it many years ago. Fun times. What did you think of the Saturn's games versus the competition?Better arcade games, not enough RPGs, some cool random games. Clearly, obviously better than the N64's non-existent library, but it can't really compete with the PSX's due to the sheer volume of games it got. Also, the PSX got that last two years' worth of games, while the Saturn died just as developers were getting better at tapping its potential. What are your favorite Saturn releases (domestic and import)?Die Hard Arcade is the best 3D beat-'em-up ever made, and one of the best beat-'em-ups overall. The arcade version ran on the ST-V I believe, which is just a modified Saturn, so in that sense it's really a Saturn original despite being released in the arcades first. Virtua Fighter 2 is still an excellent fighter, better than anything on the PSX, and both The Last Bronx and Fighting Vipers are very good. Fighters Megamix (Sega's 3D King of Fighters) was dope too. Virtua Cop 1 & 2 are fun with an actual light gun, but I don't have a CRT TV, so I don't play them. I agree with Sarge about Shining the Holy Ark - it's my favorite first-person RPG too, as I'm usually not a fan of those. The story and writing are above-average and more mature than usual, it's fast-paced, and it balances dungeon-crawler elements with proper RPG elements very well. I like The Legend of Oasis and Shining Force 3 (all 3 chapters, though the middle one isn't as strong), but surprisingly, the best Saturn RPG is Magic Knight Rayheart. That's because it was made by key members of the Phantasy Star IV team (Kodama and the main scriptwriter, who's name I forget), and they didn't worry about straying away from the source material. As a result, the SNES Magic Knight Rayheart turn-based RPG is garbage - easily in the bottom 10% of RPGs on the system - while the Saturn adaptation is great. Hissatsu! is a solid side-scroller, a genre the Genesis excelled at, and Shinobi Legions is mostly pretty good. Still, there's no denying that the library lacks depth compared to a successful console like the Genesis; I wouldn't even have brought up a game like Shinobi Legions if it had been on the Genesis.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 15, 2020 16:37:23 GMT -5
Ooh, I forgot about Fighters Megamix. Definitely a great 3D fighter. Xeogred: To be fair to Sega, the original PSX controllers weren't exactly geared well toward the 3D revolution, either. I'd argue the Saturn pads were better to start out, but the DualShock was better than the Saturn 3D control pad, especially since it gave two analog sticks.
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Post by Xeogred on Sept 15, 2020 16:40:09 GMT -5
Thought these numbers were interesting: - Ooh, I forgot about Fighters Megamix. Definitely a great 3D fighter. Xeogred : To be fair to Sega, the original PSX controllers weren't exactly geared well toward the 3D revolution, either. I'd argue the Saturn pads were better to start out, but the DualShock was better than the Saturn 3D control pad, especially since it gave two analog sticks. Yeah that's a good point. I guess I only saw the original PSX controllers out in the wild very rarely early on. Seemed like the Dualshocks were pretty commonplace after awhile, so I forget about the original design.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 15, 2020 16:53:00 GMT -5
The funny part is that I didn't own any of the original controllers until I bought a PS Classic. They're solid for 2D stuff, although I still think the d-pad is too recessed. I gripe about that a lot with Sony's controllers. And yeah, DualShock caught on really well, so you could find them pretty easily. It also helps that the PS2 controllers could also work with a PS1.
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Post by toei on Sept 15, 2020 17:14:31 GMT -5
Yes, it's easy forget, but the N64 and Mario 64 specifically is the reason other companies had to add joysticks to their controllers. The Saturn had a great 2D pad. I've never actually held the Nights controller, but it looks unwieldy. In contrast, the initial joystick-less PSX pad was so-so - definitely a crappy D-Pad, everything else I'm fine with - but the Dualshock was solid. You could say that the PSX did so well in North America, and the Saturn so poorly, in part because Sony basically attracted the sort of games Sega did with the Genesis before. Very American games like Twisted Metal or Cool Boarders (no one talks about Cool Boarders anymore, but it was a significant part of the PSX's early success). Plus Tekken was flashier than Virtua Fighter, even if it didn't actually become good until Tekken 3, and all anyone ever talks about is graphics. Because, and it's important to repeat this, they are stupid. Then it won Japan with the RPGs, cause Sony was probably better at courting third-parties, while Sega had long-standing rivalries with a lot of big developers in Japan due to their arcade business and had more of a self-reliant attitude. Plus, well, Sony is a huge Japanese corporation with a lot of pull.
Although now that I look into it, Cool Boarders was probably bigger in Canada than in the US, since snowboarding was considered really cool at the time and I guess skiing and such are bigger here for obvious reasons. It might be surprising to hear to some of you, but Cool Boarders 1 & 2 were literally some of the killer apps for the system when I was kid.
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