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Post by toei on Sept 16, 2020 14:19:47 GMT -5
Looking over NEC, they seem like a pretty large general electronics company. I guess the PCE was kind of just an experiment or side gig for them? The PC-FX being a flop, so they just decided they were done? I guess by the mid 90's the competition was too steep. Hudson Soft designed the PC Engine and shopped it around. NEC decided to try it because the NES had exploded and it didn't have any strong competition, but yeah, they're a large, generalist company, so assuming they lost money with the Supergrafx (which they attempted to launch just two years after the PC Engine, as if people were ready to buy a new console so soon), and the PC-FX, and that Hudson Soft wasn't as dedicated to the PC-FX (they still supported it, but by that point they were working with Nintendo, Sega and Sony), NEC decided to pull the plug. Another interesting thing, looking at that site, is that Sega had its best year of 8-bit console sales in 1987, the same year the PC Engine launched - 280,000 Mark IIIs and 800,000 Master Systems (the revised, rebranded Mark III with integrated FM-sound support), for over a million units. The PC Engine sold 600,000 systems that year (I don't know when it launched, but they probably didn't have a full year), and the Famicom, 1.7 mil. So that's the exact moment where competition started to hurt Nintendo, which was just thoroughly dominating the market until then - they were reduced to about 50% of the new console sales, and both competitors were more technologically advanced. The PC Engine's sales continued to grow, though they wouldn't beat Sega's 1987 sales until 1990 (for sales within a year, I mean), but Sega probably killed the Master System's sales just as the were taking off by launching the Mega Drive in 1988, without the sufficient software to support a decent launch. Though it's possible that the PC Engine ate into their sales and they felt pressured to get their new hardware out ASAP. Either way, 1987 is when Nintendo must have felt the heat and started thinking of a successor to the NES, as they had their best years in '85-86 (roughly 4mil each year!). The PCE never outsold the NES until 1991, though, when the SNES was out. It came very close in 1990, which just 50,000 fewer units sold.
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Post by Ex on Sept 16, 2020 15:35:18 GMT -5
Two modded ones. One can play burned games and the other Japanese/burned. the other has been modded - twice I owned one at the time, and I own a Japanese Saturn that may or may not be modded It's occurred to me going back and re-reading these posts, that the majority of people who own Saturns had modded units. All three people I knew IRL who had Saturns modded them. And online, it usually appears that's the same result. I guess either the Saturn was really easy to mod, or its games were so expensive that modding was the most reasonable option. I definitely missed the boat on buying and modding a Saturn back when that was the vogue thing to do. Probably because I was a lot more interested in the PS1 library than the Saturn's. However, I recognize the Saturn has some real gems I've yet to play. Perhaps we should have a three month long Saturn Club Retro or something. Die Hard Arcade is the best 3D beat-'em-up ever made, and one of the best beat-'em-ups overall. I'd give the "best 3D beat 'em up ever made" title to God Hand personally, but I fully agree Die Hard Arcade is outstanding. It's one of the few arcade games I've beaten on a real arcade machine. DHA is the sort of game that only zany Japanese developers could have come up with, and I bet it still holds up.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 16, 2020 15:46:19 GMT -5
I got to it late, so yeah, even then Panzer Dragoon Saga was super pricey. It was a bit easier to mod, I think, than the PSX, although I never had a modded system on that front.
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Post by Xeogred on Sept 16, 2020 15:47:01 GMT -5
Yup. The US barely getting any of the Saturn's library and the insane prices for a lot of its games led me to wanting some modded hardware. I just bought them, both over at RB from others though, so I still haven't modded anything myself yet.
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Post by toei on Sept 16, 2020 16:11:25 GMT -5
Saturn modding got big all the way back in 1998, as the Saturn was dying in the West and all those big games were coming out in Japan. The Sega Saturn Magazine talked about it a lot back then, but at the time, it was really all about playing imports. In the years since the rarity and price of certain games probably motivated a lot of Saturn owners to do the same.
Die Hard Arcade definitely holds up gameplay-wise. One of my favorite things about it is the "scenes" aspect - instead of long levels that get repetitive after a while, it's all a series of scenes and setpieces taking place in fixed areas, with short cutscenes and basic QTEs in-between, so it's just always moving. It really took after Die Hard the movie in that sense. Sega Technical Institute actually contributed (music and character designs, IIRC), so it's a East-West collaboration, but it was mostly an AM1 game, and the game designer was Makoto Uchida, creator of Altered Beast and Golden Axe. Definitely his best game, though I like all of them.
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Post by Xeogred on Sept 16, 2020 16:15:23 GMT -5
So wait, is Die Hard Arcade (Arcade) the same as the Saturn release? Might be easier to play it in MAME if that's the case haha.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 16, 2020 16:16:03 GMT -5
Yeah, Die Hard Arcade is cool stuff. I enjoyed my run of it years ago, and I probably should play it again. Xeogred : Apparently the two versions are nearly identical. It runs on the ST-V hardware much like Radiant Silvergun did. There's also a PS2 version, although without the Die Hard license ( Dynamite Deka). Video from ShakeWell:
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Post by paulofthewest on Sept 17, 2020 15:26:40 GMT -5
Do you recall what you thought of the Saturn when you first learned of its existence?Yes, a larger version of the Playstation. I really didn't know at the time what was good about it. When and where did you first play the Saturn?Friend's house. He had Panzer Dragoon Saga, which seemed nice, but not enough to pay that $399 price tag for the system. Did you think the Saturn was going to be a hit for SEGA?Nope. I thought the system was completely outclassed by Sony and it was another 3D power grab. Did you know the Saturn cost $399.00 when it debuted? (That's $680.00 in today's money.)Yes, well that is why I didn't get one as a kid. Do you currently, or have you ever, owned a real Saturn console?Yes, I bought my first one in 2019. Yes, 2019, the system does have some good games and it would have been nice if it wasn't so expensive! What did you think of the Saturn's games versus the competition?Better, but not as popular. When I played Street Fighter Alpha 3 I can see the improvement on the Saturn, but the system just didn't get into the market like the Playstation. Nor did it have the first-party titles to carry it though anything like Nintendo. On the flip side, the Saturn Controller is one of my favorite stock controllers. What are your favorite Saturn releases (domestic and import)?I have played only a few, so it would have to be Street Figher Zero (alpha) 2 or 3, and Duke Nukem 3D. Y'all have listed many I want to play, but I haven't had time yet.
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Post by toei on Sept 17, 2020 17:49:36 GMT -5
Sarge The PS2 Dynamite Deka is a low-budget Sega Ages remake, though. It's still the same game, just with different low-fi polygons. And then of course, there's Dynamite Deka 2 on the Dreamcast which is really good, but not as good as the first IMO, and an obscure Chinese arcade game called Asian Dynamite, which is heavily based on DD2 but with characters that play very differently. It feels a bit like a bootleg, but it's not; the same director actually became head of Sega in China (or got some high-ranking position there, whichever), and he supervised that release specifically for the Chinese market.
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Post by EasyHard on Sept 17, 2020 20:50:24 GMT -5
I've never played a Saturn, and what's more I only know of its existence from the internet. Well, one time in the early 2000s I was talking to a friend who liked playing obscure Sega stuff (like Sega CD) and he mentioned the Saturn. I thought we were talking about the Dreamcast until he corrected me. I had never heard of it until that point.
I have a list of Saturn games I'd be interested in trying sometime: Legend of Oasis, Shinning in the Holy Ark, and Guardian Heroes. I'm a big fan of Shining Force, but Shining Force 3 looks skippable. :/ I've also noted a few other games that appeal to me, but are just easy to pass on/not exciting enough to be a priority: Saturn Bomberman, Dragon Force, Burning Rangers.
I like shmups, but I think I wouldn't like the shmups on the Saturn since they are very arcade-centric if not ports of arcade games. I've played many recommended MAME shmups from this era and onward (like Do Don Pachi) and have generally disliked them. I do want to try a version of Radiant Silvergun and RayForce at some point though.
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