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Post by Ex on Jul 21, 2021 10:38:30 GMT -5
you can either manually port your game or use a dev kit (Proton?) to get things working Proton is a fork of WINE, it is an interpretive layer. It's basically a version of WINE that Valve has developed to specifically cater to the Deck's hardware. Through continuous development of Proton, Valve will be taking the onus of making PC games work with the Deck off of developers' shoulders.
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Post by anayo on Jul 21, 2021 16:14:01 GMT -5
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Post by Ex on Jul 21, 2021 16:53:57 GMT -5
Heh. I doubt it'll run poorly.
If anything, the Deck should push Nintendo to make a Switch 2 that's considerably more powerful than the original Switch. Historically though, when Nintendo is challenged by a competitor with more powerful hardware in the same console/handheld space, Nintendo chooses not to care about hardware power. Instead Nintendo tends to rely heavily on their first party franchises to sell their platform. So I won't bet that Nintendo will try to make a "Deck killer" performance wise with the Switch 2. That's an arms race that Valve could easily counter with an iterative upgrade. No, Nintendo will count on more Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, etc. infinite sequels to keep on truckin'.
There's also the argument that the Switch and Deck target different demographics. I don't really buy that though. There's plenty of M-rated ports of console/PC games hackneyed onto the Switch. The appeal there was the portability. But if those some M-rated adult gamers can play better looking/running portable versions of those games on the Deck, yeah, they'll be playing them on the Deck.
Also, as it stands now when you can get a considerably more powerful Steam Deck for $399 (MSRP), meanwhile the present Switch costs $349.99 (MSRP), it does start to make Nintendo's hardware pricing look suspect. Who wouldn't want a more powerful handheld with an infinitely larger library, for only $50 more? I know I would. So hopefully the Deck will make Nintendo cut prices on the Switch hardware once the Deck releases, and also make the Switch's successor more cost competitive.
It's fun to speculate for sure. Ultimately we can't make any concrete predictions, until we know what the "Switch 2" is going to look like form a hardware perspective. I do however, consider the Deck to be a threat to the Switch in some serious ways. Nintendo will have to step up their game, or change their hardware approach entirely. I don't see them changing the hardware approach though, given how well the Switch did. (Though hopefully there won't be another "pandemic" to bolster Switch 2 sales, because come on that's an outlier bolster.)
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Post by Sarge on Jul 21, 2021 17:49:25 GMT -5
I probably already mentioned this, but I don't see this as a Switch competitor at all. It's very much a PC enthusiast product. The big draw for Nintendo will always be, well, Nintendo. If they were having trouble selling the Switch at the current price point, they'd have already lowered the price, so demand is still clearly out there for it. I also don't think that lowest model, as appetizing as that price point looks, will be as effective for full, fat PC games like carts/MicroSD is for the Switch.
What really needs to happen is for Steam to do a really good job with their Proton layer, or have devs actually buy in like they have on the Switch and tailor some settings for the Steam Deck. ETA Prime put up a video pretty recently that tried to give an impression on what kind of performance we'll likely see from the system, and while it's no great shakes from a PC desktop/laptop perspective, for a handheld system it's pretty dang impressive for 720p gaming.
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Post by paulofthewest on Jul 21, 2021 18:23:54 GMT -5
Ya we will have to see. How good is Proton? I'm sure there is still some tooling/coding needed for porting and sometimes just getting the developer to do something is the biggest hurdle. Hopefully the allure of simplicity will win out there.
Right now I don't think they are competitors, because people's mindsets are that console gaming and PC gaming are different. Now, if the Deck succeeds then that will change as many games (like Octopath) are on both Switch and PC.
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Post by Sarge on Jul 21, 2021 18:49:57 GMT -5
Yeah, it'll have to really break out of the niche it's currently in. I don't see families running out and getting this for their kids, so it's going to be up to PC/PS5/Series X gamers to make this thing work.
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Post by Xeogred on Jul 21, 2021 19:21:49 GMT -5
I think Ex is maybe right in ways. I liked this weeks' Bombcast take on this versus the Switch. It's probably going to take a bite out of Nintendo's indie sales.
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Post by Ex on Jul 21, 2021 21:10:07 GMT -5
The big draw for Nintendo will always be, well, Nintendo. Yes, first party IP sequels are the primary draw for most Nintendo consumers. The current price point isn't being challenged by a relevant competitor yet, though. Once the Deck releases we can revisit the pricing situation. I think it will be, but you won't be able to have lots of full fat PC games installed all at once. You'd have to juggle what you play. Loads of indie games would fit on 64GB though. So we don't know yet how good Proton is, but I'm willing to assume it's pretty damn good, considering Valve is betting the farm on its capability. Traditionally speaking, interpreters using DLL linking daemons are really fast. But here's a more indepth look at the evolving compatibility of Proton: www.protondb.com/statsI don't see this as a Switch competitor at all Right now I don't think they are competitors I disagree, there is demographic overlap. I say that because people are buying these games: On Switch. Just a few examples, I could post dozens more that fit that demographic. People who enjoy M-rated "adult" games, are buying them on the Switch because that's where they can be played portably. Once a better way to play these games portably with less technical compromise happens (the Deck), people are going to stop giving Nintendo money for such downgraded ports. Not to mention people won't be buying as many indie games on Switch either, not when they can play indies on the Deck via a less expensive digital storefront (Steam).
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Post by Xeogred on Jul 21, 2021 21:48:28 GMT -5
So many good examples there haha. Man, you guys are making even me want a Deck at this rate... I'd just set it down and use an Xbox controller too.
Also... interpreters... I like slowly being able to understand more of your guys' tech talk a little lately from my Python studies.
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Post by Sarge on Jul 21, 2021 21:57:38 GMT -5
I understand the hesitancy, though. Folks point out that Steam doesn't exactly have the best track record in this regard (Steam Machines, Steam Controller). Even if they don't do anything with Proton worth a darn, it will still be appealing to me as a full Windows handheld like the AYA NEO or GPD Win 3.
I think it might chew slightly into Switch's indie sales... but all it would take is a quick price drop on the systems, and they'd be back in business. I suspect at this point even selling at $200 would turn a profit on the fat Switch. And I expect Switch 2 in the next two years, so Steam won't have too long to establish some sort of market dominance.
As someone else said elsewhere, this feels more like a loyalty play. Much like Game Pass is proving to be quite good for Microsoft (I have to wonder if they're even making money on the hardware), Steam is probably doing the same here, and hoping they establish what they see as a new, growing market niche: the full portable PC experience (more or less) on the go. The concern is, of course, will there be enough support from Steam or developers to make sure that the hardware stays viable and expands beyond the current niche those markets occupy. That's why I say the 64GB model could potentially be a problem - Switch has developers that are willing to make nips and tucks to their games to get them working on that hardware, so they tend to be smaller games overall. Running full versions, unscaled from their big PC counterparts, will likely be very problematic just from the 64GB of (slow) storage, moreso than on the Switch. It's why I think the SSD versions are important, and the true starting price point for these.
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