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Post by Xeogred on Nov 20, 2020 18:47:35 GMT -5
I think I know what you mean about NG3 having a little less running-momentum. I guess NG2 might be my favorite of the NES trilogy when I look back on those.
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Post by Ex on Nov 20, 2020 21:07:52 GMT -5
I give it a 6.5/10--the plot was kinda goofy. Nice job man, I appreciate your input. Personally I've only beaten NG1 on NES. Sadly, I still have not played through NG2 or NG3 on NES yet. I'd love to squeeze them in this month. But with Thanksgiving coming and my obligations surrounding it, I don't know what kind of time I'm going to have. Anyway, nice to see another HRG member's contribution to this thread. I had no idea bout the momentum difference. I figured NG1-3 used the exact same engine with the exact same physics. Basically like the NES Mega Man games.
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Post by paulofthewest on Nov 21, 2020 15:19:43 GMT -5
NG2 introduced wall climbing which made certain levels just easier. NG3 kept that and added a sword power up. In other word NG3 feels like the same engine of NG1 & NG2. The main game-play difference is the level design of the NG3 causes you to pause more often than the constant "go go go!" of 1 & 2.
Watching the speedrun, they basically abuse the fire wheel power for invincibility. Huh.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 21, 2020 16:11:12 GMT -5
I beat another game that I'd quit for some time: The Legend of Kage 2. I had about an hour and a half in, and put in the same amount of time to finish it up. It's not bad, but it does control a little weirdly. I dig being able to jump super high, but it's far too vertical for too long. I prefer something closer to Demon Sword where if you've got some momentum built up, you'll fly forward a bunch too.
I used the ninja chick, who has both a short-range attack and a long-range chain attack. The sprite work here is pretty solid, although I was reminded quite a bit of Gameloft's Soul Of Darkness for whatever reason (originally mobile but also on DSi). You can also try to unlock artwork by undertaking various challenges, and there are higher difficulty modes if that's your thing.
In the end, I both remember why I played it as far as I did, and why I didn't stick with it. It's a decent, but not fantastic, time. Probably a 6.5/10 from me.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 22, 2020 0:40:55 GMT -5
Played a few more games for the theme: Shadow Knights and Genji: Days of the Blade. The former is an old DOS platformer by... John Carmack and John Romero?! Huh. As far as I can tell, there aren't any continues, so once you're out of lives, it's back to the beginning. That's when I quit. It seems pretty smooth for a DOS platformer of that vintage, but other than the names involved, it's not anything special.
The other was, if I'm not mistaken, a PS3 launch game. I really liked the Genji entry on PS2. This one I remember bouncing off of - I didn't think it felt nearly as good to play - and while I've had a better time with it than I did then, there's still something off about it. We'll see if I stick with it.
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Post by Ex on Nov 22, 2020 1:06:43 GMT -5
Nice job carrying the torch Sarge . I remember seeing Kage 2 for DS back when it debuted, that was an unexpected sequel for sure. Not sure if I ever heard of Shadow Knights, but definitely knew of Genji: Dawn of the Samurai (PS2), though I've not played it. Now that you bring it up, I recall the PS3 sequel as well. Days of the Blade received middling reviews, but maybe it's worth playing. I was going to do some video gaming tonight, but was too exhausted after loads of insulation hanging, involving climbing up and down a ladder for hours. Perhaps if I'm not too tired tomorrow evening, I'll start playing Ninja Five-O. That's one ninja game I really wanted to finish for this particular theme. Back when it released in 2003, I got all the way to the final boss, but failed to beat him. Maybe 17 years later I can pull it off. Unfortunately this month hasn't been conducive for me to do a lot of video gaming, lot of real life obligations going on. For example, I'll be out of town for three days next week, and won't be able to do any video gaming during that time. But, I don't have a whole lot of travel scheduled for next month, hopefully it'll remain that way.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 22, 2020 1:33:43 GMT -5
You got this, I know you do. Yeah, Dawn of the Samurai was one of my favorites. It's in that Devil May Cry/ Onimusha 3 mold. And the big guy is actually awesome to play as, which is a bit of a rarity in these games. I remember folks remarking about the weirdness of Kage 2 coming out, yeah. I also thought it was strange that Square Enix published it, but I think I'd missed at the time that Taito had been bought out by S-E.
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Post by toei on Nov 22, 2020 7:53:23 GMT -5
The original Legend of Kage is pretty much the granddaddy of all ninja platformers. It's pretty weirdly structured by modern standards, I think there are levels that scroll forever where the goal is to kill a set number of enemies, and others where you just have to kill them until they drop a particular object. I played it for a while (probably last year) but I had trouble getting past a certain point and something about the gameplay felt a little unreliable in that early '80s way.
Genji PS2 is one of those games I really want to play but can't emulate at full speed. If one thing can get me to get back to playing video games more regularly, it's those PS2/PS3 samurai games. And Yakuza.
I've finished Way of the Samurai, having gone through the 4 main story paths and experienced probably most of the twists on individual events (though I'm sure there are more). The two endings I haven't seen are just variations of those I've gotten. I have no idea how many hours I put into it, but I'd guess 20-30 minimum. Could be a lot more. I'll be writing a proper review of it, probably today. I'm gonna try to keep it short... If I had access to all the games, I'd probably want to write a HG101 article for the series, as I do think it's worth talking about.
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Post by Xeogred on Nov 22, 2020 11:10:17 GMT -5
I played Genji: Dawn of the Samurai a few years back, way after its heyday and the PS3 sequel and all. I... didn't love it but I'm glad I played it I guess. It's a technical showcase for the PS2 by far, but it really is an all style little substance kind of game. I remember the combat felt really mushy and too loose, the game was short, and just kind of weird. Onimusha, Devil May Cry, and Ninja Gaiden Xbox really spoiled me on my expectations for character action games of that era and still to this day. These games are mastery in precision and tight controls, playing like a single player fighting game basically and you feel weight of your hits slicing and dicing monsters. Other games fail this test...
Bujingai: The Forsaken City was another one that didn't do it for me, but looked incredible when I discovered this video probably around 2011 when it was posted.
Sadly, I didn't love when I played of Otogi: The Myth of Demons either. Another case of just feeling way too floaty and off for me. I remember quitting on some wack flying dragon boss or something. I know it's From Software but...
I CAN recommend From Software's hilarious 2009 Ninja Gaiden clone, Ninja Blade. QTE's were all the rage and this game did it well, because they were so over the top it was ridiculous. There's one part where your character is surfing on rockets and rides them straight back at the attack helicopter. And some sick action of you running up and down buildings like that's somehow physically possible. It was so over the top in a great way.
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Post by toei on Nov 22, 2020 11:10:51 GMT -5
Way of the Samurai (2002, PS2) Action-adventure
In 1998, Acquire released their first game, the ninja stealth sim Tenchu. It was a big hit at the time, selling over a million copies worldwide. Unfortunately, after just one sequel, their creation was snatched from their hands. SCEA, the Japanese publisher, had sold the rights to Activision, and Activision resold the Japanese rights to From Software, who handed future development of the series to a newly-founded company named K2. In order to keep hold of the fanbase they'd built up, Acquire initially planned to make another ninja game (something they would eventually do with the Shinobido series), but ultimately decided to give the new title its own identity by making it about samurai instead. Tenchu had been linear and mission-based; the new game's director, Koshi Nakanishi, wanted to do the opposite. The theme for Samurai (the Japanese title) would be freedom.
While the idea of non-linearity had already been popular since the 32-bit era, most games - on consoles, anyway - were content with providing the simple illusion of it. Likewise, the concept of stories being told from multiple points of view was fashionable, but in practice, it would often end up meaning replaying through mostly the same game with different characters, with just a bit of new content exclusive to each scenario (e.g. Resident Evil 2). Way of the Samurai's uniqueness lies in taking both non-linearity and multiple POVs and committing to both fully.
Rather than drop you into a narrative, it drops you into a situation; two days in the fictional Rokkotsu Pass, 10 years into the Meiji Era, in which the shogunate, and the samurai class, have been officially abolished. As the Kudou clan, the once official (and now de facto) rulers of the area, prepare to sell off their modern iron foundry to the Government, tensions are flaring between them and the Akadama clan, a recently-arrived group of would-be revolutionaries who aim to overthrow the Government and return the samurai to power. What's more, the group's leader is the disowned son of the Kudou clan head. Meanwhile, in town, a few civilians remain despite the bullying and abuse from the warriors of both camps.
Our protagonist is a wandering ronin with no past; he's the player's avatar rather than a character. Depending on who you side with - if you side with anyone - three main narratives will emerge, with variations on them leading to a total of six endings. Of course, you may die at any time, ending the game right there; though there are a few points where you can save, it's only so you can take a break, and there is no save reloading. The most impressive aspects of the story (or stories) are its brevity and relative realism. Later games in the series are known for their goofy humor, but there's only a bit of that here, and in general, the characters and their behaviors and motivation make sense within the context of Feudal-era Japan (or technically, a few years after it). While the fighting moves are exaggerated, anyone can die, and there are no monsters or demons to be found. Furthermore, the cutscenes and conversations are always short, and manage to convey a lot with few words. Videogame writing in general could learn something from this game. (As an aside, every game in the series uses freelance writers for the script rather than Acquire staff, which I find interesting). This isn't to say everything works perfectly; the events of the second day feel kind of precipitated in one of the main narratives, and for whatever reason, the "good Samaritan" scenario, in which you help the townspeople, is noticeably weaker, probably because it's a bit removed from the world of samurai beefs and Government schemes. If you were to only play the game in that way, you wouldn't have much of a grasp on all the things that took place around you throughout the game.
Though a single run might last about two hours, you'd have to play at least three to really experience it, and it'll most likely be many more. The game expects you to; you're awarded points after every game, gradually unlocking things like a Battle Mode and extra costumes, and there are multiple ways to carry your swords into your next game and upgrade them with successive replays. Likewise, the battle system is surprisingly deep; too deep for a short 2-hour romp. Despite doing the tutorials, I personally didn't really start to "get" it until I spent some time with the surprisingly solid Battle Mode, which legitimately works as a reasonable 3D fighter on its own; it's no Bushido Blade, sure, but it's better than Kengo. It has free movement, a hugely important push-and-parry mechanic, 6 different types of swords that play considerably differently (and over 40 swords in all, each with a least one unique move), ground game, juggle combos and more. In general, you are using a lot of Weak attacks (and occasionally kicks, which get past blocks) while trying to create opportunities for Strong attacks, whether by dodging or parrying. But while the system is solid, it works better for 1-on-1 duels, or when fighting a few strong enemies. In the big battles of the ending, things get repetitive, mostly because contrary to Bushido Blade or your typical hack-n-slash, everyone can take a lot of hits before they die.
Swords can't be bought, but every enemy you kill drops his (or, rarely, hers). The only use for money is the blacksmith, who can upgrade swords in various ways. The sword you start with is pretty bad, and you'll find the game very hard unless you find something you like and manage to power it up a bit. As has been my experience with the few truly non-linear games I've played, it can be very rough to start, but once you hit your groove, things smooth out. In most situations, though, you can run away or even apologize to keep your head; it's not the honorable thing to do, but you should generally do whatever you need to do to survive your first time through, if only so you can bring a better sword or two into your next game and strengthen them again.
What else? The music is really good. It's mostly ambient stuff, so I don't know how well it translates outside of its context. It's a composite of traditional Japanese sounds with film-score-style classical flourishes and weird little vocal samples. The composer is the same as Sekiroh's, though Samurai's score seems a little more experimental from what I heard of the former. The game's director now works for Capcom, where he recently directed Resident Evil 7, so lots of talent here.
The cameras are really bad, as is common for PS2 games. I have a high tolerance for bad cameras, and I did get used to them. The controls work fine during combat, but little things like climbing ladders can be weirdly difficult. Also, there is one particular sequence you can get into that involves stealth and will most likely devolve into a chase; it handles like garbage, because the game switches views abruptly and confusingly in interiors (of which there are very few), similar to some games with pre-rendered backdrops, and the game does this weird-ass thing with the directions when the view changes that I can't explain because it never made sense to me. It's like the directions don't adjust to the new view until you let go of the joystick. It's only a real problem in that one section, though, and it is optional. The graphics are average for an early PS2 title, but there are lots of cool characters designs and a few great backgrounds.
I don't know how to rate this game. Early on, when I was struggling with it, I would have given it a 7; I was impressed with it in various ways, but it seemed deeply flawed. But I persisted, and it grew on me. I might give it something like an 8, and yet I like it more than a typical 8. I developed a real attachment to it. It's a great game, with clear flaws, and it's something special. This series has always gotten mixed reviews from "pro" publications, but it also has a steady fanbase, and the first game especially is a bit of a PS2 cult-classic. I understand all of these things.
Sorry the review is so long. On a side-note, going back to Tenchu - how ironic is it that a company named Acquire had their very first series rapidly acquired by another company?
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