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Post by Ex on Nov 24, 2020 23:41:57 GMT -5
I think we need to have a Bionic Commando and Gargoyle's Quest month. Unfortunately we'd have to call that theme; "Games only Sarge and Ex Play"
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Post by Sarge on Nov 24, 2020 23:58:53 GMT -5
Seriously, though, I think part of the reason both of those games work is that you get interesting, non-standard movement techniques, and the level design actually takes advantage of said techniques.
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Post by Ex on Nov 25, 2020 0:03:47 GMT -5
the reason both of those games work is that you get interesting, non-standard movement techniques I agree. Unfortunately most players are too lazy histrionically averse to learning how to move differently in platformers.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 25, 2020 14:59:51 GMT -5
I have to admit, I'm generally a sucker for anything that gives me a grappling hook. Of course, said grappling mechanics need to actually be good, and a lot of games botch that. Bionic Commando is one of the few where it just feels right.
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Post by toei on Nov 25, 2020 16:52:43 GMT -5
Before the PSX era, and Bushido Blade in particular, games starring samurai were somewhat marginal (contrary to ninja games, which enjoyed popularity in part due to the '80s ninja boom in the West, and Japanese developers' desire to appeal to both Japanese and Western audiences at the same time).
Koei made many complicated strategy games revolving around both Japanese warlords of the past, like the Nobunaga's Ambition series, and Chinese history (particularly the Romance of the Three Kingdoms), but those were highly niche games, especially on consoles. Interestingly, those two historical periods would form the basis of their later Musou series. There was a handful of arcade games revolving around swordplay, all of them forgotten today; Samurai Nihon-ichi, Takeda Shingen, Kabuki-Z, Sega's 1979 Samurai, (which some of us tried out in our pre-NES month a while back), Kozure Okami (based on the cult manga and film series, Lone Wolf and Cub). Most of these games were bad, however. Takeda and Kabuki-Z, in particular, are essentially unplayable (I do like Nihon-ichi, though).
Meanwhile, there were a handful of console originals and ports, such as The First Samurai, Kenseiden, or Musya. Again, all quite forgotten - I have never once come across anyone discussing Musya - and with a rather low quality average (I like Kenseiden, but the other two are trash).
There were also a few 2D fighters; Kaneko's Blood Warriors and Shogun Warriors actually came first, and they're better than one might think, but the one to obtain success was SNK's Samurai Shodown, which always seemed to be well-liked for both its great character designs and the new elements it brought to the genre. Of course, it also got its own RPG spin-off, whose translation is finally going to happen soon through the cosmic powers of this message board.
What many might not be aware of is that there were also a few RPGs revolving around samurai or ancient Japanese warriors on 8 and 16-bit consoles, but none of them were ever localized. I'm going to be talking about a few.
First, there's Sunsoft two-games Benkei Gaiden series, notable, at the very least, for being RPGs by Sunsoft. The first was released on the PC Engine as one of the few HuCARD turn-based RPGs, and looks very 8-bitish and DQ-inspired; the second was an early Super Famicom release. As the title implies, they most likely revolve around the legendary warrior-monk Benkei.
Notice the unique battle view. For some reason, the sprite outside of battle remind me of Phantasy Star 2's in the way they're proportioned.
On the Famicom, one that did get a fan-translation was the somewhat comical Musashi no Bouken. I say somewhat, because being an average NES RPG, there wasn't much text in the game at all to get comical with. Another series in that vein that most retro gamers are probably at least vaguely familiar with is Tengai Makyou, aka Far East of Eden, which originally ran on the PCE-CD and SNES, and also had two VS fighter spin-offs. I have also come across a more serious, non-fantasy SNES samurai RPG before, but off the top, I don't remember what it was called.
Back to ninjas, an interesting game is the SRPG Ninja Burai Densetsu, for the Genesis. A cool feature of that game is that you can enter towns during battles, and actually walk around them in a side-scrolling view.
Another I've come across is the PC-98 RPG Appare-den Fukuryu no Shou, by TGL of Farland series fame. It's quite good-looking, in that PC-98 way, with gorgeous illustrations, though some locations have a strong "tileset look" similar to a RPGMaker game.
There's also the Game Boy and SNES Oni series:
If you extend to ancient Japan in general, there's Hudson Soft's Momotarou Densetsu games (NES & SNES) and even Konami's very extensive Goemon series, of which Sarge has the most experience here. Those do not star samurai, but all would fall within the "jidaigeki" genre (ie period fiction).
EDIT: This is Hi no Ouji - Yamato Takeru, SNES:
Interestingly, the publisher is listed as Toho, which means it's probably based on a TV drama or anime.
Koei's Taikou Risshiden is probably more of a sim. Kind of evokes Uncharted Waters to me:
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Post by toei on Nov 25, 2020 17:49:14 GMT -5
Yume Maboroshi no Gotoku -
I think this RPG actually stars Oda Nobunaga. It's based on a manga whose premise is that Nobunaga didn't actually die and is now trying to get back into power.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 25, 2020 20:16:25 GMT -5
Very interesting! I'd love to play some of these.
I do remember Musya and The First Samurai. I didn't play much of either, however.
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Post by toei on Nov 29, 2020 1:35:56 GMT -5
I booted up something far older... and I'm not sure I'm going to stick with it. The controls are some of the wonkiest I've had the pleasure of experiencing: The Last Ninja for the Commodore 64. Cool soundtrack, though! Speaking of old, Western ninja games, I was kinda hoping someone would hit up Ninja Golf. It's the Atari 7800's killer app! Maybe, I don't know.
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Post by Ex on Nov 29, 2020 12:35:14 GMT -5
toeiNinja Golf was in my "give it a try bucket", for what it's worth. Easily the 7800's killer app, just based on the concept alone. Tonight I am going to play Way of the Samurai. I was thinking of burning a copy of it to play on real PS2, but eh I'll give it a shot on PCSX2 instead, save the media for stuff that can't be emulated. I'm looking forward to seeing how my fate goes in the game. Banzai!
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Post by Ex on Nov 29, 2020 12:47:48 GMT -5
Also I'll go ahead and offer final thoughts on this one: I've put about two hours into this, I'm probably halfway through it now. Samurai Kid is a quality puzzle-action-platformer. It's well made, great graphics, good music, solid control, just a completely solid production. You control a little samurai dude, who fights through levels, using various tools to solve environment puzzles, and ultimately take down a boss at the end of each level. IIRC there are ten total levels. All that said, as a 41 year old man, I just don't find this game compelling enough personally, to invest the rest of the time needed to finish it. I wanted more slashing and action, less simple and repetitive puzzling. If I'd played Samurai Kid when I was eleven years old though, I would have absolutely loved it. Truly Samurai Kid's best age bracket is 10-12 year olds. And that's likely the demographic it was meant for. So don't get me wrong guys, I do think this is a high quality GBC title, it's right up there with Shantae in production values. It's just not a compelling enough experience for me personally, to want to invest more time into. I do think Samurai Kid deserves an English fan translation by now. Maybe Club Retro's quantum influence will make that happen. Meanwhile, here's a video of how the game plays:
(This is from very early on in the game.)
If I were to give Samurai Kid a rating, probably a 7.5/10. It's got a lot of heart, and solid production, but not enough design variety and challenge for me.
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