|
Post by Sarge on Oct 30, 2020 20:12:58 GMT -5
I'm specifically thinking of the jumps in the last stage with the ninjas popping out of the pits, which can be really frustrating with unavoidable damage (or a fall into said pit). But yeah, as you say, you do have a bit more authority on recovering from those sorts of hits, as opposed to the more Castlevania-esque knockback in NG. And I was just joshing with you a bit - I just remembered you didn't care for it at all. For what it's worth, I really dig both. But then, I would. NES hound here, apparently. I also love Shadow of the Ninja, Batman, Shatterhand, Kabuki: Quantum Fighter, and so on. It's not even nostalgia for Shadow of the Ninja - I got to that one late, and actually didn't care much for it at first. That reminds me, have you played Ninja Gaiden Shadow, i.e. Shadow of the Ninja GB? Pretty solid little game, that.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Oct 30, 2020 20:27:05 GMT -5
Those ninjas pop out when you land on the middle platforms, though, not when you're in midair, and there's no Castlevania-style knockback, as you mentioned. So I don't think that part is all that bad. Even if you do get hit, you can easily survive. Also, there's a clear pattern in the level design there. Basically, those ninjas appear in every pit of that type in the last section, so once you've seen the first, you know to expect them. It's not random. I'm fine with that kind of stuff, because you can learn to deal with it pretty quickly. You see that in games like Legendary Axe, too, where enemies jump out of the water when you're on bridges. It basically always happens on bridges, so once they got you once or twice, you should reasonably expect for it to happen, and you can avoid them just by anticipating their appearance. It's not unfair because it follows a clearly identifiable pattern. NG's level design is a lot messier than that. Also, I talked about the issues with spawning in that game, but the worst aspect is how the same enemy will spawn in a different spot depending on the exact location of your sprite when you get into their spawning trigger zone. Basically, if you jump rather than walk, they might appear in the air, etc. It's as if it was specifically designed to troll you. There are situations where you literally have to toy with the spawning system to even get through. It almost feels like cheating.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 21:16:48 GMT -5
Sarge I'm fine with praise of games I don't like, but when someone specifically addresses "people (who) say Ninja Gaiden is unfair", well, that's me, so I wanted to respond. I don't recall Vice having a lot of unfair moments pertaining to platforming, though. In Ninja Gaiden, when you don't know the game by heart, you're constantly being knocked into holes, causing instant deaths; that type of stuff is a lot worse than some critter just getting a quick hit on you and causing a bit of damage. Also, Vice is more responsive, objectively so, by which I mean that your attacks come out noticeably faster, allowing you to react in a split-second to enemies running up from behind or whatever. There are a few tough spots, and few annoying ones, but in general it's really nowhere as bad as NG in that regard. Not even close. Even the flying enemies are much less fickle than in NG's bats. There's also nothing random and chaotic like Batman's final boss, where you literally need luck to win. Or even NG's final boss' final form, though at least that part wasn't so hard in NG. It's all good to disagree. I personally don't find NG unfair, just really merciless. But you know where the enemies will spawn, so that theoretically it's possible to get in a no-hit run.
Not that I'm that good. Damn birds.
Sarge I love all those games, too, and like you it's not nostalgia. (Or at least not all nostalgia for those particular titles.) I also wish I could play Ninja Gaiden Shadow, but it's a bit pricey. It and Sagaia I've always wanted but never splurged on.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Oct 30, 2020 21:23:25 GMT -5
I've actually played pretty far into NG Shadow. I don't remember why I didn't finish it. IIRC, I thought it was a decent game, but it's really slow. You can easily tell it wasn't meant to be a Ninja Gaiden game, but it doesn't feel much like Shadow of the Ninja either.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Oct 30, 2020 22:37:58 GMT -5
Probably mostly because of the Game Boy, and, well, it being slow. It was definitely supposed to be a SotN game, and the change apparently happened pretty fast, too, after Tecmo approached them about getting the rights to it. Here's a preview for it in the September issue of NP, and it came out in December as NGS. (Got to credit ShakeWell for remembering this one, he mentioned it in one of his videos I watched the other night.)
|
|
|
Post by paulofthewest on Nov 1, 2020 16:25:28 GMT -5
The first two Ninja Gaidens were well done and the mercilessness was part of what made the game great. The games, overall, are not that long so well crafted levels are more important than longevity.
That said, I completely agree that the end of Ninja Gaiden 1 with final boss of three forms and death = start the level over was a bit much. Ninja Gaiden 2 balanced things better IMO.
As for this third one, I got through the first 3 stages and 3 is definitely coming off and more difficult--especially that third boss with spamming of ninja stars.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2020 19:25:20 GMT -5
The first two Ninja Gaidens were well done and the mercilessness was part of what made the game great. The games, overall, are not that long so well crafted levels are more important than longevity. That said, I completely agree that the end of Ninja Gaiden 1 with final boss of three forms and death = start the level over was a bit much. Ninja Gaiden 2 balanced things better IMO. As for this third one, I got through the first 3 stages and 3 is definitely coming off and more difficult--especially that third boss with spamming of ninja stars. You might want to try the Famicom version, which is easier.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Nov 1, 2020 22:46:41 GMT -5
I also think it either has passwords or infinite continues. I can attest to it being a good bit easier, and it's practically a cakewalk after I got through the US version legit. I've finished not one, not two, but three ninja games. I'll take 'em in order. First, Ninja Crusaders. I've always started playing this game, thought it felt lackluster and cheap, and quit. Not this time! It isn't a looker, but it plays decently, even if it exhibits in my mind some of the same issues as Ninja Gaiden. toei has an excellent article of the game on HG101 that I recommend reading. Spawns do seem pretty consistent, but it's really, really easy to get knocked back and respawn an enemy and get in a really tight spot, and you're likely going to eat a death, since everything is one-hit kills. Stages are pretty short, though, so it's really lots of trial and error. I did a mostly legit run, only restoring state on two bosses since I didn't want to do the stages again (it sends you back, blah). Not a bad way to spend 1h15m if you've exhausted the better ninja games on NES. 6/10. Next, Ninja Gaiden II. People often cite this as their favorite. I replay it every now and then to see if my opinion has changed, but nope; I think it's the weakest of the trilogy. The one plus to the game is that, at least in the US, it's the easiest as well. I don't feel the same sort of flow that Ninja Gaiden has, though, which may just be that I'm more used to that game, but there are a lot more enemies that feel like they require more special tactics and timing to defeat. It punishes you for losing a boss segment at the end, but this time you only have to play through one stage, and it isn't anywhere near as brutal as 6-2 and 6-3 in the first game. And maybe it's just me, but I don't think the cutscenes look quite as dynamic, either - more static shots, unless I'm just misremembering the first game. Either way, I thought the plot overall was way better in the first game. This took me closer to two hours to finish, mainly because I ended up not save-stating the mess out of the final bosses and instead replaying the stage to get there with reasonable health... and then save-stating to finish it off. I ain't got nothin' to prove on this one, finished it legit years ago. I could probably dive in right now and do so if I wanted, but eh, nah. It's probably a 7.5/10 for me. Lastly, we have Far East of Eden: Kabuki Klash for Neo Geo. I almost, almost gave up on this one. Stupid first monkey boss was destroying me, but I finally slipped through, and amusingly cake-walked through the next two bosses. The final boss sees the wizard turn into "Lucifeller", a giant, over-powered demon, but it turns out you can beat him through defense and utilizing your power attack (B+C). Huge wind-up on that, but that's why you play defense. Since I was using Orochimaru, his spear has ridiculous range, which can keep you mostly safe and has a great chance of hitting if he doesn't block. The game looks really nice, and with Racjin (then Racdym) at the helm, they crafted a very Samurai Shodown-ish take on that universe. I give this one a 7/10 - definitely one of the better Neo Geo fighting games.
|
|
|
Post by Xeogred on Nov 2, 2020 7:44:27 GMT -5
I remember liking Ninja Gaiden 2 the most aesthetically/story wise at least.
Knocked out Shinobi this morning, took about a dozen continues and ~45 minutes or so.
Meant to play this back in the Run n' Gun month since Shinobi is kind of the father of Shadow Dancer and Rolling Thunder, so I definitely knew what to expect here. It even has some parts of levels that were used again in Shadow Dancer. I was surprised that Shinboi controls a bit smoother though, you can actually control your jump a bit while in mid air. There was a little more enemy variety as it went too compared to Shadow Dancer. I think I'd probably take Shadow Dancer (Genesis) over both the arcade Shadow Dancer and Shinobi arcade here, but yeah. If you like any of these you'll probably dig the rest since it's the same formula.
I might like this more than Revenge of Shinobi though. I'm not sure what it is about that one... but I just didn't love it? It's definitely solid though and not bad. But yeah, I think I'd take Shinobi arcade, both Shadow Dancers, and Shinobi III over Revenge anyday.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Nov 2, 2020 10:42:50 GMT -5
XeogredI'm a fan of Shinobi on the Master System. I had that one as a kid back in the late '80s, and I played it a helluva lot back then - but I never did beat it. Methinks this month is the right time to finally do so. I'm glad to see you had a good time with it. The Rolling Thunder influence is definitely there, though Shinobi (at least on SMS) is a less frantic more methodical affair.
|
|