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Post by Sarge on May 4, 2021 22:51:39 GMT -5
With a bit of perseverance... maybe? It wouldn't have been easy, that's for sure. I feel like the Deborah Cliff thing would have been a deal-breaker at some point. Konami sure did like that sort of junk - Dragon Scroll was one of theirs, too.
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Post by paulofthewest on May 5, 2021 15:13:19 GMT -5
Castlevania 2? I doubt it. There was some cryptic part of playing a certain maneuver at a certain spot (I can't remember the details) and the translation just did not give a good hint at all.
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Post by Xeogred on May 5, 2021 15:42:32 GMT -5
I'm using a guide with DQ6 a lot right now. Is DQ6 really difficult or cryptic? You can maybe chalk it up to some of my own personal impatiences. But up to this point through all the DQ's, I've always enjoyed jotting down notes in the notepad file where I manually keep track of my play time for games without a timer. NPC's with weird hints or dropping knowledge, land marks and Zoom points if they have some key feature that I'll need to remember to revisit a lot, places where you need those trusty late game Thief/Magic/Ultimate keys to backtrack and dig through...
It's not the difficulty of DQ6, even though this one really has had some tough bosses. But the structure of this game is unlike anything else I've played with a dual world gimmick. Throughout the game you find a well or some staircases on the world map, that take you to the other world. However the two worlds are completely different structurally and while at a glance with the maps, you might just think they're mirrored... but not quite. Some town/castle will be the same but have completely different terrain around it. And those warp points on the map? You might go into one in some NE corner of the world that teleports you to the SW side of the other world. Now the towns themselves are often the completely same layout. Which has sometimes tripped me up. Which world am I in again? The story/King/NPC's will have very different things to say and going on, but you might not realize it at a glance. You'll have two completely different sets of Zoom options.
It also doesn't help that I missed one of the world map's for about 20 hours in. So ... that might be one of the biggest things in my experience. When I teleported to the second world, I could not even reference a map to center myself. Okay so... Zoom back to this well that transports me back to this area in the other world then go here... it's almost like the issue that props up in a lot of modern games with fast traveling all over the place frequently. It gets disorienting and starts to feel like a chore.
I won't knock it for being different than the others and it's cool in ways. But I kind of miss just going from town to dungeon to town etc, and a simpler flow haha. And like I said, two completely different sets of Zoom points and you're going to discover entirely unique places in one world. It's more to keep track of than the norm. Even with a lot of guide glancing, this one has been weirder to navigate. Granted if I weren't looking at a guide so much, the game world would probably imprint itself stronger in my mind.
Even weirder is now that I have both maps, they function differently. But at least they both have a marker of where I am now. That goes a long way for me. I love exploring and charting out maps on my own.
I think it says something that the DS version apparently has an early game item/option or thing that lets you freely teleport to and from both worlds. I'm not exactly sure how that works. But I could wager that makes navigating this one a lot easier for starters.
Don't even think I noticed any bookshelves or NPC's that really break it all down. So I guess players just kind of stumbled into the more advanced classes eventually if they notice them when changing classes.
Can't help but wonder if some of these little things were in the manual. I wouldn't consider a manual cheating. It's more like a little handbook that the Hero in whatever games gets to start off with to help them on their journey. But, I'm emulating a Japanese game. No manual for me.
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Post by toei on May 5, 2021 16:41:06 GMT -5
I'm sure the manual would have had a section about classes (though you do get the basics at the shrine). I never found the twin worlds difficult to navigate, but missing the map might have done that for me too. Of course, you wouldn't have had a whole class guide like in a FAQ, but then you don't necessarily need to chart your path in advance or whatever.
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Post by Xeogred on May 5, 2021 16:52:51 GMT -5
I'm sure the manual would have had a section about classes (though you do get the basics at the shrine). I never found the twin worlds difficult to navigate, but missing the map might have done that for me too. Of course, you wouldn't have had a whole class guide like in a FAQ, but then you don't necessarily need to chart your path in advance or whatever. I was waiting for you to chime in at some point, since this is your favorite DQ I believe.
It's weird that the dream world map doesn't light up the towns like the regular world map does. I'm also still weirded out that when I finally bought the dream world map, it was fully filled in.... but maybe I did explore the whole place prior to getting it. I made sure to Zoom around some towns to test and see if that lit up those icons, but nah. Either way, even without the map I was charting out the edges of the areas and making sure I hit all the towns and places to explore.
Yeah your second point, I won't deny what I'm doing following a class guide here is almost like lite-cheating. I know I was saying I like to play "my way" somewhere else the other day too. But in my experience from DQ3/DQ6, half of these classes look useless anyways haha. I'm cutting out of the fluff. But I can see how some might argue that's robbing me of exploring this system on my own. But I also looked up the class stuff in DQ3. That one had a legit annoying gimmick though, with accessories that would change the characters personality and stat distribution. I hated that, so I'm glad DQ6 doesn't have anything like that. This is a pretty simple and effect class system and it's really neat that there's nothing required to constantly change them either. Along with just being one Zoom away (well, two if you're in the other world )
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Post by Sarge on May 5, 2021 16:59:10 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't think it would matter much on the classes - you'd naturally go for the sorts of classes that would get you what you need, regardless. It's pretty much set up for MC to go melee (or perhaps Paladin), Hassan obviously for Battlemaster, and your spellcasters to go for the magic jobs.
The original version of Dragon Quest III didn't have the personality stuff. That was added for the SNES/GBC games. Depending on what personalities you get, though, you can really boost up your stat growth. Some are obviously better (or worse) than others.
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Post by toei on May 5, 2021 17:01:41 GMT -5
The first time I played through DQ3, I don't think I ever knew about those accessories. I'm sure I equipped some of them at one point or another without knowing what they do. If we're talking about the DQ3 remakes (or any version of DQ6), I'd say that more advanced stuff only matters if you want to do the bonus dungeon, because as you said, some classes are just kind of useless, so it's pretty easy to tell which classes you should use for the most part.
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Post by Xeogred on May 5, 2021 17:03:30 GMT -5
See, by following the class guide too strictly, I did flub my Hero build. Ever since Maya, I'm all in for a glass cannon DQ mage... but not for the Hero, and I went Priest/Wizard with him to get to Sage/HERO quickly. Amos has kind of become the main character for me now, because he's better at general fighting.
Mmmm, I really might have to try DQ3-4 NES someday.
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Post by Sarge on May 5, 2021 17:36:30 GMT -5
I've actually been quite tempted to make another run through Dragon Warrior IV recently. I have so much nostalgia wrapped up in those games.
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Post by Ex on May 5, 2021 20:57:29 GMT -5
Castlevania 2? I doubt it. There was some cryptic part of playing a certain maneuver at a certain spot (I can't remember the details) and the translation just did not give a good hint at all. Exactly. The official USA translation was purposefully cryptic. I mean: bisqwit.iki.fi/cv2fin/diffI think it says something that the DS version apparently has an early game item/option or thing that lets you freely teleport to and from both worlds. Well I'm sold on the DS version then. The SFC version may look nicer, but quality of life stuff trumps that for me.
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