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Post by Ex on Jun 26, 2021 14:15:20 GMT -5
I've noticed in recent years, it has become harder for me to finish RPGs. I'm not sure exactly why. But in the past few years, I've stopped playing a few, despite being far into them. Right now I have deep saves into all of these:
Crystalis Digital Devil Saga Final Fantasy Legend II Final Fantasy X The 7th Saga Valkyria Chronicles 3 Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land
And surely a few I can't even remember right now. At the moment, I'm technically playing Mass Effect 3 and Landstalker, though I've not been steamrolling either one by a mile.
When I was younger I would often beat RPGs by sheer attrition. Especially as a teenager with no serious adult responsibilities, yeah obviously more free time. I'd play them for about ~3 hours a night, every night, till they were done. But even for a 30 hour RPG, that still takes about two weeks. I see people on the internet beat 30-40 hour long RPGs in a week or less! I just don't have that kind of free time personally (also at that pace I'd get burnt out). But all the same, I've been getting irritated at myself lately for starting and dropping RPGs too often, when I didn't use to do that. Now maybe I've just been picking bad RPGs, or RPGs that don't appeal to my unique tastes - or maybe there's something else to it. I do struggle to find RPGs with stories that actually maintain my interest, I've noticed that much.
Enough about me though, I want to know about your own playing of RPGs. Do you struggle to finish this genre these days? Or do you still chomp through RPGs easily without resistance? What's your advice on maintaining play momentum with RPGs as an adult? Or do you think as we get older, there's an intrinsic quality to RPGs that begins to diminish?
Just random thoughts, but I'd like to know what the HRG community thinks about this topic.
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Post by anayo on Jun 26, 2021 16:42:53 GMT -5
You know how they say your tastes change every seven years? They were probably talking about food when they said that, but I think that happened with me and RPGs. I wasn't always this way. When I was young I loved RPGs. The main RPG I remember getting really deep into as a kid was Pokemon. Between the various Pokemon titled on my Gameboy Color I probably poured a thousand hours into the series. A little later in my teens I played Chrono Trigger on my Nintendo DS and Panzer Dragoon Saga on my Sega Saturn. I remember being wowed by Fallout 3 (70 hours) and Skyrim (130 hours). What caused me to lose interest in RPGs was probably when my brother got hooked on the free online MMORPG "Runescape". We shared a bedroom growing up, so I'd watch him play for hours and hours. At some point it occurred to me the whole entire world of Runescape revolved around performing tedious, repetitive tasks to make numbers go up. Admittedly the meme below is for JRPGs, not MMOs, but my conclusion was basically the same: A little later, around age 18, I began playing Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, an RPG everyone renowned as a masterpiece. At first I really liked it. Then after completing the first world a switch flipped in my head. It was like nihilistic depression making it impossible for my brain to produce serotonin, except I still wanted to eat and live and do schoolwork and stuff like that. This existential black hole was just confined to this one specific computer game. I felt as if everything I had done, was doing, and could do was completely pointless. I turned it off and never booted it up ever again. This seems to have been the start of me breaking up with RPGs. It's entirely possible that my younger brother's misplaced priorities at a time in his life when he didn't have much maturity or self-restraint gave me a taste aversion to an otherwise fun genre. It's also possible that the underpinnings of RPGs owe themselves to the contrivances of game devs from the 8-bit era who needed a way stifle second hand game sales and artificially inflate play time, making even the latest RPGs feel like an anachronism with an HD coat of paint. Am I cynical? Or am I seeing things for how they truly are? Maybe it's a little of both. Since this time, I have warmed up to exactly two RPGs. One is too new to talk about here. So rather than name drop one and beat around the bush with the other I'll suffice by saying these RPGs which I liked had the following qualities: - sharp, witty writing full of memorable characters and smile-inducing charm and humor - combat involving kinesthetic challenges and mini-games which tested my reflexes rather than my ability to press a button on a menu I don't know where to include this part of the story so I'll just dump it here: last year I completed disc 1 of Final Fantasy VII on my 20 year old gaming PC. Then the nihilistic void opened up again and I wanted to stop playing it. I reasoned with myself, arguing I had sunk too much time into it to quit now. On top of that, it certainly is an interesting glimpse into a piece of gaming history that impacted so many impressionable gamers all those years ago. There's also no denying it's nice to finally get some of the jokes from the Final Fantasy fandom. I just don't actually enjoy playing it. So right now it's sitting on my shelf like a long book that I haven't yet mustered the willpower to resume reading.
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Post by Xeogred on Jun 26, 2021 17:09:05 GMT -5
Well, I'm glad I don't have these problems you two have. Sure, I look at HLTB and love it as a resource. I'll try to map ahead my gaming a bit or maybe compare some titles due to length, but once I jump in, I don't care. I stopped caring about this years ago. Even during my last job with all the overtime throughout the months/years, I knocked out more really long games in the last 5 years than I did at other points in my life. I have a threshold where my patience drains that just naturally happens when games reach ~70 some hours, which is mostly modern stuff. But I'll only play one or two of those a year, if even. I'll agree with some here that 20-30 hours from those 16bit days strikes a real sweet spot. But I'm not going to just block off a whole genre or games for simply being longer than that. It probably helps that I don't play a lot of games at the same time. Especially RPG's, I pretty much never double up on this genre. I focus on one. Get to the weekends, binge them for a few hours if I'm hooked and having fun. Eventually it's done. Consistency is the key. I watched a 92 episode anime earlier this year, among other shows, and it's done. An episode or two a day throughout the weeks/months and it's done. Stop worrying about this being some weird race, or you're probably going to keep on preventing yourself from discovering things you may really enjoy. Not preaching to anyone here but hey, it works for me. My hobbies aren't a race. Personally for me, if I don't finish a longer game, there's more than likely a reason. Like what just happened with Valkryie Profile in this months Club Retro theme. I think I can usually tell what I make out of a game after a few hours, so I've never found myself regrettably playing something for too long. With a few exceptions of some titles I can think of where I'd hit ~30 hours and realize I'm not having much fun, so then I'm not shy to drop them. But if it's a consistent trend then I just think that simply means this genre isn't for that person after awhile. I like a beginning, middle, and end, so I never play MMO's.
EDIT: All my dropped games have been RPG's this year so far.
1. Suikoden Tactics ~ 5 hours 2. The Outer Worlds ~ 11 hours 3. Tales of Berseria ~ 5 hours 4. Valkyrie Profile ~ 12 hours
RPG's Beaten and basically cream of the crop for me this year so far:
1. Phantasy Star IV - 17h
2. Front Mission 4 - 48h 58m
3. Dragon Quest VI - 42h
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Post by EasyHard on Jun 26, 2021 17:33:36 GMT -5
Yes, but I think everything becomes less relatable as you age. RPG stories, game stories, anime games, anime anything, all narrative fiction. Even non-narrative media like podcasts and videos.
As for playing and finishing RPGs, my experience is I naturally avoid starting them based on not wanting to commit so much time all at once. I don't know how much I can relate though, because I think I attempt to complete (or start) far fewer games than most. I'm keenly aware that for each genre or series I'm into, my interest grows more selective every 3-5 years. And I really do mean "interest" -- I get less excited about fewer games, I form snappier judgements/expectations about games that enter my radar, and I'm mentally filtering fewer games into the "I should play this" category. This mitigates the feeling that I'm struggling to complete stuff even though I play less than I used to.
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Post by toei on Jun 26, 2021 20:32:24 GMT -5
When I was really into the genre, it was definitely play them every day (unless I couldn't) until they were over. There's definitely a quality to RPGs that makes them incredible when you're a kid - this was especially true in the 16-bit era, when nothing else had any depth in terms of world, characters or story. Almost everything else was a side-scroller, where you'd literally walk in one direction. By contrast, RPGs let you explore a whole world, go on a real adventure, meet a ton of people. It all felt very real and engrossing as a kid. I don't play RPGs anymore because I'd rather try and do all that in real life (well, not kill monsters, but the rest). If I had infinite time, or better yet, if I could stop time, I think I could still enjoy them, because I *have* enjoyed them the few times I've played them in recent years. People talking about the gameplay for battles in turn-based RPGs don't get it at all. The battles are the filler, everything else is the real substance.
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Post by Xeogred on Jun 26, 2021 20:51:52 GMT -5
This thread feels depressing.
Somewhat like toei is saying though, it's true for me that I don't live and breath JRPG's like I did in middle school. So I can see how time comes into the equation to an extent and I guess most her prefer to play more games at once than I do, so you guys might at least sample more games than I get around to. I also think it's true that there's just so many options thesedays, it's not a bad idea if we dig through a lot the fluff and only focus on the best RPG's or particular styles/developers/etc we really cater to.
I just replayed FF7 last year and still loved it though. Still love those Xenoblade's. I don't feel like I've "grown out" of JRPG's so maybe I'm the weirdo. But I'm definitely selective about them.
I don't know how far Ex is in his list of RPG's there, but I'd just bite the bullet and take it all as a loss. I don't like jumping back into any game or genre with months/years in between, but RPG's especially... absolutely no way. Have to restart. Yet not everyone is going to want to redo ~30+ hours to get to where they were last time either haha.
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Post by Ex on Jun 26, 2021 21:28:25 GMT -5
You know how they say your tastes change every seven years? I've never heard of that before. I have heard of the "seven year itch" though. It was after my time, so I never got into it. But I know quite a few people who played the hell outta some Pokemon. That is indeed the core premise of MMORPGs, and why I've never cared about them. I don't like playing games I can't officially beat. I've heard the "RPGs are just playable spreadsheets" allusion before. I don't agree with it. RPGs are often number-centric, but calling them a spreadsheet sim is reductive to unrepresentative degree. That'd be like calling FPS games glorified clay pigeon shooting. It's not the holistic reality. I wouldn't want to play any game that made me feel like that. For what it's worth, I did try playing the original KOTOR and after two hours I never played it again. I remember being very unenthused by it. Also, I do get irritated with RPGs that have mercilessly high encounter rates, especially with battles that are brain dead easy. If you like Undertale so much, you might want to check out the Mother and Earthbound games. Since they were what Toby Fox was uh, inspired by. If you got past Midgar, you already finished the best part of FF7 anyway. I agree FF7 is considerably overrated, but I also understand why it was such a big deal for a lot of players. Even during my last job with all the overtime throughout the months/years, I knocked out more really long games in the last 5 years than I did at other points in my life. That's certainly easier to do as a bachelor without kids, understandably. Just to be clear, I wasn't inferring I don't enjoy or don't want to play RPGs anymore. That is solid advice. It is kind of silly to play more than one RPG at a time. Going with that train of thought, why I probably quit playing these... >Crystalis I don't like the combat system. Unintuitive progression. >Digital Devil Saga The encounter rate is psychotic. >Final Fantasy Legend II The encounter rate is very high, coupled with a tedious battle system. >Final Fantasy X The characters are mostly awful, the writing is all awful. >The 7th Saga I picked the wrong protagonist for an unbalanced game. >Valkyria Chronicles 3 Mechanical issues with the PSP controls grated my nerves. >Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land The final third of this game becomes extraordinarily grindy. That's where my hang-up is though. I do fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy with video games. I think I attempt to complete (or start) far fewer games than most. I'm not sure what kind of games you even like? The only game I can remember seeing you enthusiastic about is DOOM actually. Just based on your HRG posts I've seen. This is how I often feel about the most modern of modern game releases. Broadly speaking, I care about less than 1% of the games that I see come out these days. I don't play RPGs anymore because I'd rather try and do all that in real life I get what you're saying, and that's a good point. I've known some people who substituted RPGs in place of real life when they should have been out living a real life. And not always RPGs, but video games in general to that effect. THAT SAID, I don't think it's impossible to balance playing RPGs (or whatever genre) while also living a healthy real life. Even as a responsible productive adult. Sure you shouldn't binge games 3 or 4 hours a day, for days (or weeks) on end, unless you don't have much going on in life. But if games are what are keeping someone from having anything going on in life, yeah gotta cut back some. But I do believe there can be a healthy balance wherein a grown person can play games consistently, but also be a successful adult. I agree with what you're saying to an extent. I generally am attracted to RPGs for their world exploration, stories and characters, OSTs, and a feeling of going on an adventure. But I also enjoy the battle systems, when the battles systems are actually good. Dry and boring endless turn-based battles against the same three enemies for two hours, that's not good battling. I don't feel like I've "grown out" of JRPG's so maybe I'm the weirdo. I have not grown out of JRPGs. I find the term "grown out of" to be problematic terminology in general. With old JRPGs I typically get irritated with high encounter rates, with modern JRPGs I typically get irritated with crap characters and lame stories. But there's still a lot to enjoy about JRPGs from both eras regardless. Probably will with all of it except Valkyria Chronicles 3. I'll just have to play that one on PPSSPP or something, so I can remap the controls to be not stupid.
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Post by EasyHard on Jun 26, 2021 22:10:50 GMT -5
Ex : The " games you are best at" probably is the thread where I've talked the most about specific favorites. I'll try to describe the "types" of games I like here, but I really am the type of player who nests his gaming around replaying favorite games and less around favorite genres.
For older games, I clearly love revisiting SNES games and 90s FPSes to an unusually large degree. "Newer" games, especially post 2006 is where I started sampling games more sparsely but there have been some series that I've latched onto more than others for extended periods of time: Touhou, Etrian Odyssey, Dark Souls, and Mirror's Edge. Each of these series has prompted me to try more games like them, but after a while I stop trying to keep up with these genres as a whole and just focus more on the series again.
I'm not really sure what my favorite types of non-retro games are at present, perhaps because thinking in terms of genres doesn't feel reliable to me anymore. If FPSes and JRPGs hadn't diverged from my preferences so much over the past two decades it would be them. I also sometimes tell myself that modern Metroidvanias and 2D action platformers are top genres for me because I love so many SNES/Genesis/GBA/DS games like them, but in practice my giant list of promising indies in those categories grows faster than I bother playing them.
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Post by toei on Jun 26, 2021 23:25:24 GMT -5
I agree that the concept of "outgrowing" can be problematic, or at least, people misuse the term. You can grow tired of something without necessarily having become "too good" or mature for it. I also agree that you can balance playing RPGs or any kind of video game and everything else. But when you leaned too hard in one direction for a long time, sometimes you need to really lean into the other for a while to compensate.
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Post by Sarge on Jun 27, 2021 0:39:03 GMT -5
It's funny, I know people that were action junkies and have gotten into RPGs, but I've found myself drifting away from them over time. I think my patience just isn't quite what it was growing up, and I also think the astonishing amount of options at my fingertips (and seriously, even without spending money there are so many options!) makes committing to a really lengthy game a big ask.
Still, though, I definitely get that RPG itch. Something I've realized, though, even when I look at the older RPGs I had access to, is that even when I didn't have a ton of games to play, there were RPGs I just never could put time into. I still have a list of RPGs from the NES/SNES era that I've whittled down, but in no way beaten them all. I think there were just some games that just didn't quite measure up, and apparently I wasn't that RPG-hungry that I'd play through just anything.
Really, that might be part of the issue as well. Truly special RPGs are rare. And while we missed out on some great games here in the West, we also got a lot of the absolute humdingers, too. So the remaining stuff just doesn't really measure up, either. Now, it feels like I want an action component to my RPGs in most cases, excepting when I get into the RPG "mood".
Anyway, I guess I've gravitated more to platformers and ARPGs now, and I'm starting to appreciate early FPS and shoot-'em-ups as well. I don't think the old love will ever completely die, though. When one really does get its hooks into me, I either put in an hour or so every evening, or binge pretty heavily on the weekend.
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