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Post by Sarge on Mar 14, 2018 12:10:26 GMT -5
That campaign mode is what made me quit. Perhaps I should just do the various cups like that. EDIT: Time to dig deep and try to come up with something for Saturn. I freely admit that I haven't put nearly the sort of time into it as I did into other consoles, but I feel like I can come up with something! An obvious choice (for me, anyway) would be Panzer Dragoon Saga. I always enjoy trying to efficiently end battles, and there's really nothing like it to this day. A remake would get rid of some of the issues, I'm sure, but I've long since given up on something that grand. If you crave some Treasure goodness, you can start with Guardian Heroes. The game is a splendid multi-plane beat-'em-up with light RPG elements and branching paths. Furthermore, each character feels incredibly unique, so multiple playthroughs are not only viable, but encouraged. Interestingly, the combat here started with another Treasure game, a Yu Yu Hakusho fighter on the Sega Genesis. Gameplay here is much faster, though. More Treasure arrived in the form of Radiant Silvergun. Y'all know that most of the time, I'm not a huge shoot-'em-up fan. There are entries that I dig, though, and RS is one of them. I loved that there was a sort of RPG-like mode where you can progressively power up your weapons. It means that, through sheer stubbornness, even the lousiest player should be able to win the game. All the different weapon combinations are also a blast, turning some areas into a bit of a puzzle where you need to use the right weapons to succeed optimally. I'll roll with an RPG for my next slot: Shining the Holy Ark. Much like shooters, I'm not a huge fan of first-person RPGs, but this one definitely captured my attention throughout. The pre-rendered graphics look pretty bad today, with some awful scaling to boot, but the game itself improves on Shining in the Darkness quite a bit in scope. If you enjoyed something like Arcana on SNES, then this one should also appeal. Now I'm stuck trying to come up with one more game... and I'm having a hard time of it. While I could double-up on putting Street Fighter Zero 3 on here, or put Symphony of the Night in despite the gimped port, I'm going to cheat in another manner. Let's go with Grandia, even though I experienced it on PlayStation. By all accounts, that version was inferior to the Saturn original. I would absolutely love it if the Saturn version were translated; even dropping in the PSX script would suffice. I need an excuse to play through it again, anyway. This spot may get supplanted by Shining Force III some day, though. - Panzer Dragoon Saga
- Guardian Heroes
- Radiant Silvergun
- Shining the Holy Ark
- Grandia
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Post by Xeogred on Mar 14, 2018 18:00:09 GMT -5
I think GX and Star Wars Episode 1 Pod Racer are the hardest racing games I've played. GX being hard immediately at like the second race and Pod Racer I just remember never finishing because it seemed like it had 1,000 levels and never ended. The pod customization was Armored Core level craziness and awesome.
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Post by chibby on Mar 14, 2018 20:16:53 GMT -5
3. P.N. 03 (what can I say, I'm a simple man) I haven't had a chance to do the kind of soul searching it would take to create a list of 5 (here or on the underdog thread) but I know that P.N. 03 would be on one of those lists for Gamecube. Outside of the alluring wiggle of its protagonist, it is fast paced and just a little bit different. It feels like it's resisting the third person shooter genre in favor of more arcade like goodness. I found it for about 3 bucks in a pawn shop and I don't regret that investment or the investment of time.
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Post by Xeogred on Mar 14, 2018 21:54:33 GMT -5
PC:1. Doom* 2. Deus Ex 3. Half-Life 2 4. FEAR 5. Thief Gold Honorable Mentions: System Shock 2, Star Craft, Total Annihilation, Quake 1 and 2, Jedi Knight, Unreal Gold, Half-Life 1, Thief 2 and 3, Doom 3... To my own surprise, I think I can come to peace with saying Thief just barely edges out System Shock 2 for me. Both kind of go hand in hand though with shared staff and the engine. While I'm a bigger fan of sci-fi and SHODAN is one of the best characters ever, along with the incredible Many, I think the atmosphere and world of Thief was on some other kind of dimension. I also love the Metroidvania styled format that System Shock kind of laid out along with Ultima Underworld for the blueprints of hybrid FPS adventure games, but Thief being classically "map" based and done well really hit a home run for me as well. I loved 100%'ing every level and taking my time. The sound design thanks to the Dark Engine in both games is out of this world. I think that's perhaps another element that makes me sway to Thief though, SS2 has a few more melodic and memorable tracks, but the musical style Eric Brosius brought to Thief is like no other I've EVER heard. It's melodic droning ambiance, how do you make drone and ambiance strangely melodic? I don't know, but that's exactly what Eric did in the first three Thief games he worked on. I played both Thief and SS2 somewhere in 2012-2014 and I still can't get over how dense Thief's atmosphere is. I also really loved how Garrett is not a hero whatsoever and a more compelling main character than the usual, SS2's main is just a flat avatar typical of Ken Levine's style but he makes up for it with the external characters and writing. Bioshock is a familiar venture that does some of its own cool things while missing a few beats SS2 did better, but Thief? I can't make a comparison at all, it's one of the weirdest and most awesome gaming worlds I've ever journeyed through. Thy HAMMERS! The only slight comparison I can think of is Quake 1. Both have this ultra weird neo gothic style going on that doesn't really feel like steampunk, but kind of is, but I don't know... old Victorian England sci-fi with bizarre elements of supernatural magic is probably my favorite setting next to straight up general/cyberpunk sci-fi. Luckily, I've been blessed with a certain spiritual successor in the recent years that flawlessly follows Thief in its footsteps carrying this genre forward ...Half-Life 2 is one I have gone back to replay probably 20 some times by now, across all its various versions from the commendable Xbox port, to the 360 Orange Box, etc. But it's home is on PC for sure so that's why I'm counting it here. Every single time I replay Half-Life 2, it blows me away and surprises me again and again. The pacing of this game is utterly masterful, when the action breaks out the combat is just nonstop for huge stretches and there's barely any other games out there that feel this visceral. The story, world design, the music, so many elements set this game apart from the norm. Very much like Thief, Half-Life 2 has an atmosphere that I completely drown into and can't get enough of. I appreciate the original and it's Metroid-esque atmosphere being in one huge underground facility, but Half-Life 2 surpasses it on every level for me and does not have any bad portion like Xen in sight. I value Half-Life 2 this highly on its own but if we include the Episodes, I really do enjoy Episode 2. FEAR is a similar case with perfect pacing, structure, and combat. I cannot think of a single flaw. Visceral is how I love to describe this one as well, because very few games FEEL this good and amazing to play. The enemy AI has yet to be surpassed. Deus Ex... where to even begin, outside of knowing that you're reinstalling it now! My history with Deus Ex is deep and I first experienced the infamous PS2 version. I remember seeing a mere dinky paragraph and screenshot or two about this game in magazines somewhere when the PS2 version dropped in 2002 and it just looked and sounded amazing to me, back before social media really sucked our souls dry and we still had physical media to go off of, I knew I wanted this game by seeing these cyberpunk characters in suits. It was a quiet and obscure release that none of my friends or anyone seemed to talk about, but life would never be the same again for me after I picked it up. The PS2 version despite its flaws (a lot more loading screens and divided maps), I sunk so much time into and replayed it constantly. I had played other oddballs like Project EDEN but nothing had prepared me for Deus Ex's intricate blending of genres. This predates my experience with anything Bioware related, Fallout 3, or whatever, Deus Ex was the first hybrid FPS/adventure game that I played and this masterpiece still stands the test of time. I have heard tales of how apparently the first area of the game, Liberty Island, is some kind of test of courage and patience for a lot of players and can be a make or break moment. But me? I was captivated immediately and engrossed with how open the game was and all the options I had. Love at first sight. When did I last replay Deus Ex? In 2017. The story dips into some X-Files camp but I just absolutely love that. The MOD format for the music is the best ever next to the old console chiptunes, this game has straight up one of the best OST's of all time, even Warren Spector himself thesedays says he still listens to it. While I can acknowledge that this game has flaws, the combat not being that fun as a big one, Deus Ex is a full package experience like no other. I have enjoyed every sequel but they have all failed to capture the magic that is with the original. The replay value is high with how flexible the game is in various branching paths, hidden areas (NYC sewers anyone? Morpheus?), differing events with characters, there's always something new to discover when going back to this one. While I have now played System Shock 1, Ultima Underworld, System Shock 2, etc, and see where Deus Ex's influences come from, Deus Ex will always still be a constant favorite of mine and an adventure that I love sinking back into. * Doom... when I say Doom, it encompasses a lot for me under its endless umbrella. Since Doom 2 is the same exact engine with advancements, doubles the enemy roster and adds the Super Shotgun, they feel like one in the same to me. Which applies to all the official and unofficial expansions as well. 25 some years later, Doom's immortal fan community continues to make their own maps. As you may guess, 25 years later these fans have gotten extremely good at this craft to the point that many MegaWADS (generally composing of ~32 maps, like a full real expansion), are sometimes even better than the old official vanilla Doom releases. Sometimes even ex id or other big time developers will even cook up new maps. Even John Romero himself. Doom is right there next to Link to the Past and Super Metroid for me, but its everlasting fan community and endless content of new maps makes it special in a unique way. I go back and play Doom all the time but when I do it's often a completely new experience diving into new MegaWADS. 25 years of Doom, this game is the literal definition of immortal in my book and will continue to be a constant fresh experience as I explore the fan community forever. If you want to get started with one, I recommend Alien Vendetta. I played Doom when I was 5. I turned out okay. It's funny I'm more of a console guy but pretty passionate about some of these. I was bored at work today thinking about this thread and others, so I rambled.
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Post by anayo on Mar 15, 2018 6:21:44 GMT -5
- Panzer Dragoon Saga
- Guardian Heroes
- Radiant Silvergun
- Shining the Holy Ark
- Grandia
Sarge, I’m starting to feel like a lover of action games on a forum full of RPG nerds! Lol! Sega Saturn1) Nights into Dreams - Saturn owners wanted a Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot killer. Sonic Team said, “Screw that.” and made a game about an androgynous purple clown who flies around helping kids overcome their bad dreams. At first glance this appears to be a typical 90’s game where you beat all the stages and call it a day. Actually this is more like Dig Dug or Burger Time, a high score game you play again and again. The art direction, while cheesy as can be, is just so unique and so doggone sure of itself that it works. They ported this on the Playstation 2 in Japan and Steam for the rest of the world, and there’s a 2007 sequel on Wii, but for me all of those fell short of the Saturn original. 2) Virtual Cop II - Light gun games are a genre I dearly miss, and this one is my all time favorite. It has car chases, bank robberies, and helicopter gun battles. The background props are surprisingly interactive, with a ridiculous number of objects responding to your shots. Even though this chugs along on the poor Saturn, it captures the feel of a mid-90’s Sega Model 2 arcade game: bombastically violent, yet somehow optimistic and full of color. Every time I sit down to play this is just as exciting as the last. 3) Elevator Action Returns - I think I love this because it has the same spirit as Virtual Cop II, which is basically an 80’s cop movie like Lethal Weapon made by a Japanese video game studio in the 90’s. Shoot all the criminals! Find automatic weapons in random crates! Fight helicopters that somehow fit in the sewers! EAR has tight controls and well-designed stages. It’s basically one of those 90’s “beat all the stages” games that NiGHTS into Dreams isn’t, but somehow I never tire of it. It’s just as interesting to me with each playthrough. 4) Dragon Force - I’m not sure what genre this is. An RTS with RPG elements? Anyway, I didn’t like this very much at first. The graphics and art direction aren’t terribly impressive, and it doesn’t explain how to play despite being relatively complicated. Once I got the hang of it, though, I was hooked. I’d lose track of time and play for hours. There was a Japan only sequel (now fan translated with a patch) and a Japan only PS2 remake, but aside from those you need a Sega Saturn or an emulator to play this. 5) Panzer Dragoon Zwei - One of the Panzer Dragoons belonged on here and Zwei is the more polished of the two. The gameplay is simple to a fault, but it has lovely art direction and is a unique Sega Saturn experience. I get this out and give it a play through every year or so. Games that almost made it but didn’t: Die Hard Arcade - I guess it was between this and Elevator Action Returns. Shining Force III - I kept vacillating between this and Dragon Force. Finally I asked myself which one I’d rather replay and the answer became clear. Guardian Heroes - This is good, but only with a friend. When I played it alone it was somewhat dull. Bulk Slash - I loved this, but not strongly enough to dethrone any of the other choices.
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Post by Ex on Mar 15, 2018 9:08:00 GMT -5
@xeo I think you hit upon some of the reasons I love Thief so much. More people need to play it. You were talking about when you first played certain games, so I'll just list when I did for your list... Doom = I first beat this in 1993. Loved it! Deus Ex = I first beat this in 2001. Loved it! Half-Life 2 = I first played this in 2005, didn't love it. Beat it in 2006 IIRC. It's a 8/10 for me at most. FEAR = I still haven't played through this. I guess I should this year? Thief Gold = I first beat this in 2001. Blew muh mind yo. Although I played through the original Dark Project. I still need to play through Gold so I can experience those new levels. - anayoYou're making me realize how weak my Saturn experience is. Of the games you mentioned, the only ones I've beaten are Panzer Dragoon Zwei and Die Hard Arcade. I have at least played Nights into Dreams and Bulk Slash.
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Post by Sarge on Mar 15, 2018 10:02:18 GMT -5
Sarge, I’m starting to feel like a lover of action games on a forum full of RPG nerds! Lol! Haha! Well, that used to be almost all I played. Now, I play a ton of action games. They tend to be a lot shorter, and I just don't have it in me to blow through 50 hour RPGs anymore. (Says the guy who currently has nearly 70 hours into the latest Xenoblade...) I really like Elevator Action Returns. More people should play it for sure! I actually liked the original as well, but seeing the updated version is just... man. Impressive stuff. Panzer Dragoon as a series overall appeals to me. I distinctly remember tracking down the PC version of Panzer Dragoon after seeing Zwei at a demo unit in Toys 'R' Us. I originally thought it was the first game, which is why we got it, but hey, it was still a blast. My brother and I would just queue up that soundtrack and listen. Good stuff. (By the way, RIP, TRU.) Die Hard Arcade might not be my favorite brawler, but it is a ton of fun. Definitely a game worth playing.
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Post by anayo on Mar 15, 2018 16:31:59 GMT -5
Ex,
I felt that way when making my SNES and Playstation favorites list. There’s too much information to know all of it, so I think we all more or less pick our favorite consoles and specialize on those.
Sarge,
I used to like RPG’s more when I was younger. The point when I realized something was the matter with me was when I began KOTOR and got bored 3 or 4 hours into it. As for Elevator Action Returns, I guess that’s technically a multiplatform game now cause you can get it on Taito Legends 2 for XBOX and Playstation 2. That might be an easier way for someone without a Sega Saturn or the inclination to emulate one. I played it first on Saturn, though, so I tend to see it as a Saturn game.
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Post by Xeogred on Mar 15, 2018 17:49:27 GMT -5
@xeo Thief Gold = I first beat this in 2001. Blew muh mind yo. Although I played through the original Dark Project. I still need to play through Gold so I can experience those new levels.Dude... The Mage Towers was probably my favorite level, next to the mansion that was infested with forest and had floors rotating into the ceiling. Song Of The Caverns is quite good too. I think there's some other changes that might be enough for me to maybe check out the original version someday, but no Mage Towers won't be the same!
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Post by Ex on Mar 15, 2018 20:26:31 GMT -5
My favorite level in Dark Project is "Down In The Bonehoard". That level is what opened my eyes to how amazing Thief is. You start in this little graveyard, find a secret passage in a tomb, and said passage takes you into a subterranean labyrinth of massive proportions. With no loading, ever. Thief is without doubt the most engrossing, immersive game I've ever played. I will someday play through the Gold version. Sadly I didn't enjoy Thief II as much. Steampunk robots just didn't work for me like ghosts and demons did. I ended up enjoying Thief III than Thief II. But they're all great individually, wayyyy above average.
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