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Post by Xeogred on May 27, 2019 23:57:19 GMT -5
Sarge I know you've beaten a lot of RPG's... but now I'm starting to wonder what the list of unfinished ones looks like.
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Post by Ex on May 28, 2019 1:05:53 GMT -5
Xeogred Great job beating the first Front Mission. The secondary campaign is totally worth doing. I would say the series just keeps getting better and better, but that's only true in roundabout ways. Honestly each FM entry has its own strengths and weaknesses. Concerning the ones I've personally beaten: Front Mission DS (I also beat the SFC original.) +Awesome aesthetics; fabulous presentation. -Enemy AI is dirt simple, overall the game's way too easy. Front Mission 3+Tons of content (two games in one). -Stripped down unit counts and simple mission designs. Front Mission 4+Robust unit counts and complex mission designs. -Lackluster presentation. Front Mission 5: Scars of the War+Outstanding presentation, wraps up the series plot marvelously. -Ferocious difficulty will drive all but the most ardent series vets away. Front Mission Alternative+The series tried RTS and it worked fairly well. -No English translation exists.
Front Mission: Gun Hazard +Probably the best Japanese-only SFC game ever made. -People die every day having never played this masterpiece.
Front Mission Evolved +Well at least it got a legit localization. -Lackluster execution on every level.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you think about future entries as you play them.
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I made it to chapter 23 of 25 tonight in Luminous Arc. I *might* finish it tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 4:51:36 GMT -5
Pretty cool, Xeo, I'd like to read your thoughts about the extra campaign when you get around to it. And yeah, with the current translation FM2 is probably too much trouble than it's worth it. I hoped the newest spinoff game in the series - Left Alive - would bring some attention to the series, but it didn't do well. Front Mission 4+Robust unit counts and complex mission designs. - Lackluster presentation. Front Mission 5: Scars of the War+ Outstanding presentation, wraps up the series plot marvelously. -Ferocious difficulty will drive all but the most ardent series vets away. I don't get what you mean by presentation. All I can tell is that all of the units in FM4 were voice acted, had an actual personality and played a role in the story. Most of the units in FM5 are completely throwaway characters and the story itself was pretty meh. At least in FM4 you've got a somewhat realistic geopolitical premise to support the story, on the one hand you have Zavtrians (Russians) trying to infiltrate the German military and trying to seize gas reserves in Eastern Europe for themselves, while the other parallel campaign had what's essentially the US military fighting a Communist regime in South America. Then you have the FM5 story which is almost entirely anime nonsense that just boils down to 'war is bad, friendship is good'. FM5 is very good, but I didn't care for the story and characters at all - it's not really harder than FM4 either.
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Post by Ex on May 28, 2019 9:21:49 GMT -5
I don't get what you mean by presentation. I meant FM4's graphical presentation, not its thematic presentation. FM4's themes and plot are all top notch stuff. FM4 is just very visually simplistic for a PS2 game, especially one published by SQEX. Also the palette suffers due to all the colors muted down to browns and greys. The graphics get the job done, but you can tell the budget was neutered. I don't agree with that at all. FM5 does have some throwaway characters, but so does every FM. With a cast as large as FM5's, there's no way every single character could be well developed and meaningful. One thing I loved about FM5, is you get to converse with characters on a deeper level than any of the previous FM games. Primarily through exploring bases/hangars/outposts/barracks and talking to characters individually, as they are represented as full 3D models that can be independently interrogated. You can even recruit new wanzer pilots that way. IMO FM5's plot does an amazing job of tying all the previous FM entries' plots together into one cohesive explosive finale. That is an accurate summation, and keep in mind I never said that FM4's plot is bad. Disagree. I think that FM4 is more consistently challenging, but FM5 has a few key missions that are much harder than anything FM4 ever throws at the player. I'm not going into more detail than that, because I don't want to spoil anything for Xeogred .
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Post by Xeogred on May 28, 2019 9:41:47 GMT -5
Maybe Tsumuri worked his way through some missions differently, this genre seems like one of the most flexible ones so difficulty is different for everyone I'd imagine.
Either way, I've seen a lot of varied opinions on the series with you guys here and after I was looking around the web the other day. So who knows what I'll think or how I will rank them, but they all sound pretty dang good overall, so I look forward to FM3-FM5.
I looked more into the UCS expansion story in FM1 and like Ex said, it looks VERY elaborate with a lot of new assets, music, etc and everything. I guess this originates from the PSX release in Japan. So maybe the story/characters are even better than the main game. It looks awesome so I'll probably start it up today.
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Post by Ex on May 28, 2019 9:48:19 GMT -5
It looks awesome so I'll probably start it up today. Indeed, now you'll get to see the war via the USN's point of view. Who's really the "bad guys"?
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Post by Xeogred on May 28, 2019 16:03:20 GMT -5
Well, already got 3 hours and 8 missions into the UCS campaign. Cruising through it pretty easily so far, but I pretty much know how to handle things after the OCU campaign. I'm seeing some new parts/items though which is cool. It did take me awhile to realize, I don't have any handy supply truck this time, but instead one character came with some kind of Resupply backpack, so they can serve for that if necessary. That's an interesting change and so far I only have 5 units. Dealing with a bunch of new enemy types like normal tanks, helicopters, and more varied missions again is really cool. Got to control some of the "Hell's Wall" guys in the last mission I did which was cool... though I refrained from using them that much so my main characters could scoop up all the exp. I have a better grasp of the exp/skill system this time too, so it'll be easier and quicker to build some units how I want.
Great stuff, at this rate probably won't take too long to finish up. But I'll probably just be back to a mission or two a night for the rest of the week (had today off for the Tuesday-Saturday people thankfully).
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Post by Sarge on May 28, 2019 16:44:56 GMT -5
Sarge I know you've beaten a lot of RPG's... but now I'm starting to wonder what the list of unfinished ones looks like. It's probably both less and more than you'd think, but I do have time in pretty much any RPG I've owned from the GC/PS2/XBOX era back. Which is most of them. Anyway, off the top of my head, I know I've got a Tales of Destiny II ( Eternia) save at about 10-15 hours, a Baten Kaitos Origins one at 15.5, and a whole bunch sitting between an hour and five hours. Oh, and still have Legaia 2, which is a good 30 hours in. In fact, that might be the one I target next. Ironically, I've had Legend of Legaia for forever, but never put much time into it. Same for stuff like Azure Dreams, Brave Fencer Musashi, Thousand Arms, Guardian's Crusade... it's kinda crazy. Even more surprising is that, despite the sheer number of fan translations out there, I haven't actually played through that many at all. I did rectify some of that with Treasure of the Rudras and Gun Hazard, though. And I've played through your favorite, Seiken Densetsu 3. I'd also like to give a serious go at Brain Lord, and one of these days, I will finish The 7th Saga. (I lost a fairly advanced save game in that one, and attempts to get back to it have been stymied.)
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Post by toei on May 28, 2019 19:50:01 GMT -5
I'd say 1-5 hours doesn't really count; 1 hour for an RPG is still within the "trying it out" phase, and while 5 hours is a decent chunk, I figured you'd want to start over if you do decide to play it after an extended break. Out of the PSX RPGs you've listed, though, the only one I'd really recommend is Guardian's Crusade. Surprisingly solid and charming RPG from the makers of Toshinden, with a pretty unique look and feel. Another cool thing about it is that you stop getting random encounters within the current area once you reach a certain level (which doesn't usually require too much grinding). Definitely the best Tamsoft game (the worst is probably the Simple 2000 game where you have to photograph a giant woman, or any other of their mediocre releases in that series).
Thousand Arms has really tedious and slow one-on-one battles, which always killed it for me (too bad, as it does seem like it might have been a pretty funny and offbeat game). Legend of Legaia is incredibly tedious for similar reasons - very long battles + very frequent random encounters, the worst possible combination - and the story sucks anyway, so once the novelty of the VS fighter-style special move inputs wear off, you're left with a subpar game. Brave Fencer Musashi is really a mediocre 3D platformer with the barest of ARPG elements - it's even divided into separate levels and everything -, and I haven't played Azure Dreams much. It does seem like a workable Mysterious Dungeons knockoff, though I've heard it's very easy and there's a monster-catching element to it.
I'm curious what you'll say about Legaia 2, as despite the fact that I disliked the first one, I've always been curious about the sequel. Most people seem to like it less, though.
I wonder which one of us has finished the most RPGs?
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Post by Xeogred on May 28, 2019 20:10:33 GMT -5
Even though I just finished up FM1's main campaign, think I've got an itch for a PS2 JRPG lately. Leaning towards Suikoden IV or Shadow Hearts Covenant possibly.
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