|
Post by Ex on Jun 22, 2019 12:42:11 GMT -5
When I created Hardcore Retro Gaming, I did so in the interest of generating a true retro gaming discussion oasis. I chiefly wanted to avoid two issues that plagued my previous regular retro gaming forum hangouts. One, all too often modern gaming talk would drown out retro gaming talk. Two, disingenuous political discussion/overt bias would cause schism inducing drama amongst forum members. Thus far HRG has been successful at avoiding those two pitfalls, I am personally proud of this haven in that regard. At this point HRG is about a year and a half old. The fact that HRG didn't die straight out the gate is impressive, but is certainly not an effort I did alone. I am very thankful for the handful of regulars who stick around, and contribute to the discussions on a regular basis with meaningful content. I appreciate that we still have continued retro gaming discussion here on a daily basis. That said, our member growth is almost stagnant, and 95% of our posts are generated by the same few people. As much as we might all enjoy each other's company; without continued new member input, the conversations risk growing stale. (As in: Person X already knows what persons Y and Z think about this or that, so why bother talking about it.) I would like to see our membership increase more often, and I would like to see a larger variety of posters adding their input regularly. That's my goal at present for HRG.
So I ask you via the poll, and here as well; what do you think? I am interested in your opinion. Do you think that HRG is perfect already? Do you think drastic changes need to be made to achieve said goal? How can we attract new members, who will join the regular conversation consistently? At this point I am not opposed to making serious changes to HRG, in the interest of accomplishing the goal. I want this place to grow and continuously attract verbose members. As well as re-entice existing members to feel more talkative as well. Or maybe everything is as good as it can already be, and the world just doesn't care about retro gaming all that much... in a non-social media context? Your input is valued, please let me know what you think.
|
|
|
Post by anayo on Jun 22, 2019 13:25:13 GMT -5
Ex you’re right conversations could grow stale, but I think the community has some built-in fuel to sustain new talks: 1) The passage of time and this community’s “10 year rule” will open up more topics for us to discuss. For instance next year we can talk about games that came out in 2010. Personally I’m looking forward to when I can write a retrospective on the Wii-U. 2) We keep beating and finding more games on eBay or at thrift stores. The only idea I have to make things more novel or interesting would be to schedule multiplayer online play of retro games together between HRG members. It could be something HRG compliant from the online era or it could even be 8 or 16 bit, since my understanding is that modern Genesis and SNES emulators have ways to tunnel coop play over the Internet. There’s even X-link kai, which can tunnel LAN play for XBOX and PS2. This would take some coordination, but we’re all so geographically far apart it wouldn’t really be feasible to meet up and play games IRL like Chibby and I have done before. But I’m interested enough to participate or even volunteer to coordinate something like that. I wanted to share some thoughts I had about HRG’s 10 year rule: It seemed peculiar how the rule is hardware agnostic. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was given to understand that we can discuss things like: - playing Doom 3 on an Oculus Rift with a fan-made VR patch - playing XBOX 360 games in 4K on an XBOX One X - playing Quake 2 with the recent RTX patch to enable raytracing In my mind these examples seem demonstrably modern, so I wondered if they went against the spirit of HRG even though legalistically speaking they’re all allowed. Anyway it’s probably best that these things stay HRG-compliant, mainly because so many of HRG’s members emulate or play re-mastered versions of retro games and an “original hardware only” rule would probably be too stifling, and a rule decreeing “some modern hardware is OK and some isn’t” would get messy. Besides my hardware-oriented mindset is probably what made me think about that. So I’m just ruminating about my perspective on it. It also seemed peculiar to me how the rule prohibits discussing games that came out very recently but pay homage to the era that we love here. So my instincts tell me that Bloodstained Curse of the Moon, Fox n. Forests, Freedom Planet, Shovel Knight, Dusk, etc etc. should be discussable. But creating some kind of whitelist for those would undermine the succinctness of the 10 year rule and also create strife (“ie. Why can we talk about game ABC but not game XYZ.”)
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Jun 22, 2019 13:48:55 GMT -5
Finding folks to join up and talk is pretty tough. It doesn't help that there are more established places already, and so much happens via places like retro channels on Reddit or stuff on Twitch or whatever. I personally don't like stuff that's real-time, because of the ethereal nature of those discussions. I also think that, with those places vying for attention, it just takes time to break through, assuming it will happen. I think we have good engagement among our regulars, and if we could get a few more folks into the fray, I think we'd hit a turning point. I don't think retro game discussion is dead, but I do wonder how sustainable it is in this context. One of the busier boards I visit has to be Talking Time, and that had the benefit of many, many years and congealing around the personality of Jeremy Parish. I believe a lot of our discussions hold up pretty well, and I especially take interest in the retro threads ( ShakeWell being one of the big movers on that front). I'd love to see a few more folks from over there drop in, because there are certainly a lot of folks with knowledge to drop on the retro side. Same deal with Racketboy: I know there are some folks that originally came from there, and some of the folks that signed up would absolutely be welcome in the discussions here. anayo: Ex and I have discussed whether the line should shift or not when it comes to what we can and can't discuss. I think I threw out the idea of having a section for games clearly designed to aim for the retro aesthetic, although that could be tricky to manage what is and isn't acceptable, as you say. I've also thrown out the idea of perhaps allowing modern-day homebrew discussions for systems that have long been dead. I'm not locked in to either, though, and it doesn't affect my involvement here either way. In the end, Ex is the boss, and I defer to him! I do believe he's got the right idea here, and I understand the reluctance to hit on some of the more modern stuff or the edge cases. At a minimum, I have very much enjoyed my time here, and hope for more years of discussion. There aren't many places that tend to specifically cater to the style of discussion I prefer, so this feels like an oasis in a rather dire pool.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Jun 22, 2019 13:54:53 GMT -5
anayo >schedule multiplayer online play of retro games together between HRG membersThat sounds awesome. If it was done in a fashion that other HRG members could watch as well, either realtime or recorded video, with the players' voice overs. I would be interested in this. However I know squat about how to do it. I'm not up to date on such implementations at all. And if I myself were to engage, it'd have to be rather late at night for me. My day times are way too busy for gaming unfortunately. But yes, this is a cool idea. >I wanted to share some thoughts I had about HRG’s 10 year rule: The thing about the 10 year rule, is it's easy to understand and follow. "You are allowed to freely discuss games that are at least ten years old on HRG." If we start putting further restrictions in place, that would only serve to complicate matters in a negative fashion. Such as saying only these emulators are sanctioned; only this hardware is allowed. I think that kind of stance would be too pedantic and stifling for sure. It would drive newcomers away even harder than the existing rule, honestly. I think ultimately it should be about the game itself in question, not how said game is implemented for play. >It also seemed peculiar to me how the rule prohibits discussing games that came out very recently >but pay homage to the era that we love here. I don't personally see anything peculiar about it. A brand new freshly developed game that apes the past in a retro-style, is still a new game regardless. If we started trying to filter new games as "HRG compliant" just because they look and play like they're from the past, that would be a slippery slope into debates of madness IMO. Again the 10 year rule just makes things so much simpler, and upholds the core integrity as a result. THAT SAID I have been thinking of splitting this board in half. There could be two gaming sections: Retro Gaming (Talk about games 10 years old or older.)
Modern Gaming (Talk about games less than 10 years old.)If we did that, we could still maintain the unsullied discussion of retro gaming without fear of compromise, in its respective section. Meanwhile, new games (as in new retro-looking games) could be freely discussed in the Modern Gaming section. That's about the best compromise I can come up with right now. I'd have to rename the forum to Hardcore Retro Gaming+ or some such though. Thanks for your input anayo. I'm really interested in all perspectives and ideas on how to improve this place for everyone. Edit: I got ninja'd by Sarge. I will respond to your thoughts later!
|
|
|
Post by anayo on Jun 22, 2019 14:58:06 GMT -5
One other thing I've noticed about HRG but never thought to mention until now: in the text entry window where I type my posts, there is some kind of auto-correct enabled which aggressively changes what I type whenever it disagrees with me. So whenever I type "chibby" it auto-corrects it to "chubby" and I have to manually correct it back. It just did the same thing a few minutes ago when I tried typing "Ninja gaiden" and it autocorrected me to "Ninja Garden". Is there a way to turn this off?
|
|
|
Post by toei on Jun 22, 2019 16:02:17 GMT -5
One other thing I've noticed about HRG but never thought to mention until now: in the text entry window where I type my posts, there is some kind of auto-correct enabled which aggressively changes what I type whenever it disagrees with me. So whenever I type "chibby" it auto-corrects it to "chubby" and I have to manually correct it back. It just did the same thing a few minutes ago when I tried typing "Ninja gaiden" and it autocorrected me to "Ninja Garden". Is there a way to turn this off? Are you sure this isn't some app or a browser-specific thing? It doesn't do that for me. I would have that. Also, "Garden" is half of the way from "Gaiden" to "Garbage". I think it's trying to tell you something. -- - The last time we had this discussion, I said that making a podcast could generate some attention, but it seemed like I was the only one who was really interested. I felt like it could be a vehicle to look back on our monthly theme once it's over, discuss the topic in general, and bring up whatever else we found interesting this month. Doesn't have to be super long. - I like the idea of online multiplayer sessions now and then. Other than getting familiar with the setup necessary for online gaming through emulators, it shouldn't be very hard to organize. We can just have a thread where people a few games or genres they'd be down for and a general time, then whoever's interested in joining in can say so. - HRG+ sounds good, but instead of the "retro / modern" nomenclature, I suggest "classic gaming" for games 10 years or older, and "retro" for new games that are deliberately old-school, since those are very much looking backwards for inspiration and thus fit the term "retro" better. "Modern" sounds like you're referring to everything coming out nowadays.
|
|
|
Post by Xeogred on Jun 22, 2019 22:00:17 GMT -5
Good discussions so far. I can easily follow your line of thought there toei , on the "classic" vs "retro" thing, but I think that still tends to confuse people or it's just subjective and would get trickier if the terms were even more deliberately broken up. Might be easier on everyone if we just continue to view "classic/retro" as the same definition. Even though again, I easily see what you're getting at and it makes sense to me. But it sounds like for Modern Gaming, Ex would be welcoming all of it and not just the throwbacks. To which, I know Sarge plays some new stuff, but I might be the most up to date gamer around here. So I'd welcome another forum for that but I'd really have to question if Ex truly wants this. It would open the floodgates for a bit but I wouldn't want the spirit of HRG compromised. I don't know if this would really drive in new members, but we've certainly run into some funny walls having to stifle past conversations at points. However Ex , if you're looking back on other boards I'd say one thing to consider is that some places were just not very organized at all. Dozens of forums and threads spilled out everywhere, so that modern gaming talk all too easily poured through everywhere as well. If that makes sense. If you were to go forward with this idea and maybe include a Modern Gaming forum, if I were in your shoes I would honestly just create a new category and forum solely for the one Modern Gaming forum. It would be above Off Topic, but still below the three main retro gaming forums which remain as the priority focus. Also, I know Member Article Submission hasn't seen much activity, but I think it's a really cool forum and hope it stays. It's more personal than the main threads and having that one forum makes it easy to reference the submissions. For Modern Gaming, maybe one big sticky thread for the retro throwback styled releases would suffice for those discussions.
With both forums, keeping the 10 year rule going forward would be a pretty cool divider. Although it would need a little maintenance once the near year's hit, to potentially move over a topic or some.
It's been great to see some new faces lately and some returning members from awhile back. Like Sarge said, I hope HRG stays around for years to come. I'm pretty old hat when it comes to internet habits, if HRG weren't around, I guess I would go back to RB, maybe post more on Doomworld, or I don't know. But I'll keep gaming forever. I only stick to a few places thesedays and HRG is one of those regular visits.
Along with the humorous last voting choice, I think no matter how this forum shapes up, it's an uphill battle because the very concept of a gaming forum in 2019+ has become... retro internet.
EDIT: Also yeah anayo , like toei said, that sounds like something on your end? I don't get any auto-corrections. I'm using Firefox.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Jun 22, 2019 22:06:07 GMT -5
I personally don't like stuff that's real-time, because of the ethereal nature of those discussions. Agreed. I prefer the turn-based archival conversations that forums provide. I think it leads to deeper discussions inherently, that are also searchable years on. Social media and other implements of short term real-time discussion aren't as gratifying personally. (I understand that's not a popular modern way of thinking though.) The issue I've seen lately, is that when we do attract new members, they don't tend to stick around and post much. I worry that our tight knit regular group may seem impenetrable to outsiders. (It's not!) We had a lot of cursory sign ups early on. I think if some of those folks came back, they might be impressed with the growth that's occurred since initially signing up. The trouble with a new forum is the slow start, so most folks tended to just slide back to their old haunts, where more regular conversation occurred from a wider variety of posters. Even if said conversations lacked the integrity of what initially brought them to HRG. in the text entry window where I type my posts, there is some kind of auto-correct enabled which aggressively changes what I type I believe that is something intrinsic to the browser or OS you are using to interface with this forum. I can tell you that on my laptop or smartphone, such auto-corrective behavior does not occur. I said that making a podcast could generate some attention, but it seemed like I was the only one who was really interested. I don't personally listen to podcasts, so it's not something I put a lot of value in. An additional reason is that it would move conversation I'd rather see on the forum, instead into the realm of streaming media. Idealistically I'd like for the forum's internal content to attract regulars, rather than the forum becoming an ancillary bonus to a podcast. That said, I could be all wrong. If you guys want to create a podcast, I'd be willing to chime in from time to time. I am interested. If anyone knows the best software for doing this sort of thing, let us know. It would be fun to watch HRG members play versus or co-op games together, while also listening to their thoughts as they play. Or maybe even talking to them while they are playing, even if you're not playing yourself. This isn't something I personally would be able to do often, but for HRG members with more free time and a more malleable schedule, yeah. I don't think I explained the concept clearly enough. The modern gaming board would be modern gaming period. That would include modern games made in a retro style, as well as regular modern games. Trying to restrict the proposed modern board to only "retro styled games" would be quite difficult, and would lead to arguments about what is and isn't a "legitimate retro style". Now naming the the 10+ year old gaming board "Classic" is a pretty good idea. I'm about keeping things simple and easy to understand, that word works.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Jun 22, 2019 22:20:32 GMT -5
Even though again, I easily see what you're getting at and it makes sense to me. But it sounds like for Modern Gaming, Ex would be welcoming all of it and not just the throwbacks. We could welcome modern gaming discussion solely in the sanctioned modern board, yes. I can assure you that for the 10 years or older board, that rule would be strictly enforced on that board. The distinction would be kept cleanly divided. I could implement the modern board cleanly into the existing design. But I would not create an entirely new forum, it's just too much work man! HRG is pretty much the only gaming forum I post on. Once in a while I post on RPG Codex, but not often. Half the fun of gaming for me, is talking to other people about the hobby. - To be clear with everybody, I'm not thinking of ending HRG. I'm just trying to think of ways to improve the forum, and increase our active membership. If I ever personally got tired of running HRG, I would hand ownership off to someone else, not destroy it.
|
|
|
Post by Xeogred on Jun 23, 2019 7:10:30 GMT -5
Sorry if my lingo is dated, but there are currently three categories starting with "Hardcore Retro Gaming Discussion" and five "forums". So I just meant creating a new category and one forum for Modern Gaming, not a completely new message board! If that clears that up. A new separate board entirely, yeah that would be really silly haha.
|
|