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Post by toei on Feb 27, 2021 20:52:09 GMT -5
I indeed thought of Power Stone right away. I'm still beating myself up for not buying Power Stone 2 when I saw it for cheap out in the wild a long time ago, haha. But yeah, I read your HCG101 article and then glanced at the Ehrgeiz one, which the author does complain about its button mashy nature compared to the Tobal's. I'll definitely give those a look. I'm actually still not sure if I like Virtua Fighter or not. I always dip into them a bit via the Yakuza games. The 32x port of the first one is probably the coolest most impressive thing on that platform, I mean that earnestly (since the 32x wasn't exactly quality beyond that). Yeah, VF 32X is a solid port, and easily the game I played the most on that platform. No one liked the Saturn port of the original game - VF Remix was a lot better - so that justifies VF 32X. Virtua Racing already existed in a decent form on the Genesis, so I never played the 32X version much, and I don't really care about any of the exclusives. VF is easily my favorite fighting game series. There is a logic to the controls in relation to the moves and the way moves connect with each other that other fighters don't have. This is especially true of 2D fighters like the Street Fighter games, where the priority of moves doesn't always make sense visually or instinctively because it's basically decided on a case-per-case basis to try and sort-of balance the characters. In VF, if if looks like a certain move should hit first and prevent the other move, then it will. I feel like it just makes complete physical sense on a blow-by-blow basis, and that matters more to me than flashiness.
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Post by Ex on Feb 27, 2021 21:34:41 GMT -5
The Bouncer is a beat 'em up, not a fighter, but anyway. It's got some issues for sure. I beat it back in 2018, these were my thoughts:
The Bouncer is a 3D beat 'em up developed by DreamFactory and published by SquareSoft. This was SquareSoft's first game published on PS2, and also the first PS2 game to support Dolby Surround 5.1. The plot concerns a group of bouncers (as in club/bar bouncers) on a mission to rescue a female friend from the clutches of an evil genius. With its rag-doll physics, depth of field effects, and bloom lighting, The Bouncer impressed eyes back in its day. However the rush to market did noticeably hinder some of The Bouncer's aspirations.
Top 5 things I liked:
1. Entertaining and goofy plot with a few surprises. 2. Often unintentionally humorous rag-doll effects. 3. Pressure sensitive attacks add tactile diversity to the combat. 4. Head-butting robots to death. 5. Volt Krueger's great and deserves his own game.
Top 5 things I didn't like:
1. Cringe-worthy Tetsuya Nomura character designs. 2. The camera is your deadliest enemy. 3. Sion Barzhad (dude on the cover) is extraordinarily annoying. 4. Playing as the different bouncers doesn't alter the main plot. 5. Way way wayyyy too easy.
Overall:
If you're looking for a decent 3D beat 'em up, The Bouncer is worth a try. You can play as three different bouncers, and level them up as you see fit. The Bouncer won't take you long to beat, but you'll have a few laughs at its absurdity. With a better camera, more content, and character designs that weren't revolting, The Bouncer would have scored higher with me. But I think The Bouncer would have made a good rental for new PlayStation 2 owners back in its day. 6/10
I'm glad you all approve of this theme. I look forward to investigating obscure or less popular 3D fighters, as I've played all the big boys up till 2011. My top 5 must-play 10+ year old 3D fighter recommendations:
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Post by toei on Feb 27, 2021 22:26:55 GMT -5
Most of these are just traditional SF-style fighters with polygons. Rival Schools, Street Fighter IV, KoF... They might as well be 2D. I don't know Tao Feng. Soul Calibur, at least, is a proper 3D fighter. I know that the first wave of polygonal fighters didn't have the side-step or free movement, either (except Toshinden), but they didn't play or feel like 2D fighters (except Toshinden, ironically). Eh, whatever. One that isn't completely obscure, but also not a heavy hitter or cult classic, is Konami's Kensei: Sacred Fist. I find that game interesting because out of the Japanese arcade giants, Konami is the only one that never had a really big fighter game, in either 2D or 3D. Capcom dominated the 2D side, Sega and Namco had the 3D side, but Konami, despite releasing over 20 fighting games in their history, never seemed to put in their best effort. Their best-liked 2D fighter is probably the Ninja Turtles game on the SNES. In 3D, I'd say Kensei was their biggest shot. It's got its own gimmick - each characters has two stances that completely change their moves and general fighting style -, it's got a large character roster, and it looks pretty good (if a bit plain in terms of design). The biggest issue is how canned the moves feel. This is something that exists in most 3D fighters, but here you really feel it - you basically dial in a few buttons then watch the combo play out, and there's a clear disconnect between the inputs and the output. That's what clearly places it in the mid-tiers of 32-bit 3D fighters. Also, Ex , I'd say the N64 meagre 3D fighter library is all pretty obscure, but unless you count Smash Brothers, all those games really suck. Dual Heroes, Deadly Arts, etc...
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Post by Sarge on Feb 27, 2021 22:33:00 GMT -5
Yeah, the N64 really failed pretty hard in that genre. Even the best is just kinda "meh".
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Post by Ex on Feb 27, 2021 23:21:41 GMT -5
Most of these are just traditional SF-style fighters with polygons. That's correct. I like that style of single-plane fighting game. I also like 3D polygonal graphics. A "3D fighter" can be single-plane, use step-to-the-side z-axis, or freely move around in a three dimensional arena.
I did not intend for this theme to focus on arena-based fighting games in particular. Just 3D graphics (polygonal characters) fighting games.
However, if you want to play free movement arena-based fighting games specifically, be my guest.
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Post by Sarge on Feb 27, 2021 23:24:43 GMT -5
Project Justice is pretty great, at any rate. Also, who is gonna play Ballz? Not polygons, but it is 3D.
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Post by toei on Feb 28, 2021 0:32:04 GMT -5
Most of these are just traditional SF-style fighters with polygons. That's correct. I like that style of single-plane fighting game. I also like 3D polygonal graphics. A "3D fighter" can be single-plane, use step-to-the-side z-axis, or freely move around in a three dimensional arena.
I did not intend for this theme to focus on arena-based fighting games in particular. Just 3D graphics (polygonal characters) fighting games.
However, if you want to play free movement arena-based fighting games specifically, be my guest. Who said anything about arena fighters? For me, the real (or standard, if you prefer) 3D fighters are the wave of games introduced by Virtua Fighter. Tekken, Dead or Alive, Bloody Roar, etc. - the games that ruled the mid-90s. Single-plane fighters with Street Fighter 2 mechanics that happen to use polygons aren't interesting to me as a whole because they're just a visual variant on the 2D fighter genre, just usually with looser controls and timing. Some of those games might still be good regardless, but they're not representative of the 3D fighter genre. I'm not trying to argue with what's allowed in this thread. It's your month, and even if it weren't, arguments like that are destined to go nowhere. Rather, I was commenting on your top 5 list.
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Post by Ex on Feb 28, 2021 1:03:06 GMT -5
For me, the real (or standard, if you prefer) 3D fighters are the wave of games introduced by Virtua Fighter. Tekken, Dead or Alive, Bloody Roar, etc. - the games that ruled the mid-90s. Rather, I was commenting on your top 5 list. In my top 5 list, two of the games have the kind of "3D" mechanics you are describing: Soul Calibur Tao Feng
I enjoy both single plane, and Z-axis style 3D fighters. I also enjoy arena fighters at times, though not often.
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Post by Xeogred on Feb 28, 2021 5:24:33 GMT -5
I'm with toei there and think that's why I prefer 3D fighters, the ones like Tekken and Soul Calibur. Being able to move up and down opens up so much and just gives me a greater sense of freedom and confidence in this genre. But yeah I never get a ton out of the arena stuff, even if I really dug Power Stone back in the day. If there's one must play entry in Virtua Fighter, which one would it be? Ohhh but ah yes, Dead or Alive. Anyone who was on the original Xbox hype train couldn't avoid that series with Team Ninja's stuff being a great showcase of the tech. The port of DOA2 was awesome along with DOA3. I can never remember which one I played more, but it was one of those. I don't think I ever owned them but always had a few friends that had them so we played a lot of DOA. Those were the teenage years too, so we all appreciated those polygons... I wasn't too hot on DOA4 though. I played online for a brief second and just got destroyed everytime. Overall though, I never loved how DOA was more counter/grapple based. I vastly prefer Tekken which is more about stringing combo's and just punching/kicking. I suspect Virtua Fighter is more in that style too. Too new to really go into, but fighting games have gotten a lot of love again in recent years. The newest Tekken and Soul Calibur entries are amazing. I think in the early PS4/Xbox One days, this wave of my new love for fighters again started with the new Killer Instinct. So I definitely can still enjoy the single plane stuff sometimes. I keep thinking I'd like KOF a lot more than SF, if I ever give one of those a serious shot.
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Post by Ex on Feb 28, 2021 10:54:56 GMT -5
If there's one must play entry in Virtua Fighter, which one would it be? The entry I spent the most time with was this one: I liked it quite a bit. I also enjoyed Virtua Fighter 5. That one is on PS3 and 360.
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