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Post by anayo on Feb 6, 2022 11:51:50 GMT -5
I'm on disc 3 of FF7 now. Thoughts:
- When I can't defeat a monster the first time and have to deliberate over the right approach to overcome it, then FF7 is engaging. But the first 15 hours or so are far too easy because I could just kill everything by attacking it head on over and over again. So the hardest thing was not getting bored. Last year I made 8 hours of progress, then took a 7+ month long break because I just couldn't maintain interest. If this is normal for the JRPG genre, then JRPGs simply are not for me. I'm going to finish this but I'm also looking forward to playing something else.
- The story is incoherent nonsense. I don't think I'm saying this because of some underlying distaste for Japanese developed games because I liked the story and pacing in Shining Force III, Chrono Trigger, and The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. In each of those I felt I was drawing closer to a insurmountable foe before facing them in a climactic finale. But in FF7 there's just too much going on so my brain goes into sensory overload mode. I can't coherently explain half of what's going on.
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Post by toei on Feb 6, 2022 12:12:52 GMT -5
I felt the same about FF7's story. I liked it when it was a more focused story of slums rebel group vs big corporation. Once the focus changes to Sephiroth, it's mostly just nonsense. And no, it's not a Japanese thing or even a Japanese RPG thing, it's a Final Fantasy thing. But FF7 is probably the worst example of it (FFV has a big disconnect halfway through, too).
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Post by Chema on Feb 6, 2022 13:42:08 GMT -5
In fairness, the translation of FF7 is atrocious. Lots of small (and not so small) mistakes that keep adding up.
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Post by Xeogred on Feb 6, 2022 14:39:10 GMT -5
In fairness, the translation of FF7 is atrocious. Lots of small (and not so small) mistakes that keep adding up.
I've mentioned that a lot but I think it falls on deaf ears here. I'm glad I played the Reunion mod recently and it cleaned up the script greatly. But yeah, I think you couldn't even pay most people here to replay FF7.
It's still a wacky plot either way, but also not one I'd overthink.
EDIT: I keep going back and forth on if I want to play the remastered edition of FF8 or not. I kind of don't even like how Squall looks younger and has more of a baby face. The character model updating is nice and all, but then it looks like the backgrounds still max out at 480p (if even?) and it's jarring.
I think just sharpening it up in DuckStation might look better actually.
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Post by toei on Feb 6, 2022 15:22:20 GMT -5
The character models look way too sharp for the backgrounds. I'm glad I'm not playing that version.
EDIT - Then again, speeding up the battles by 3 would be crazy. And sorely needed. The battles are crazy slow.
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Post by paulofthewest on Feb 6, 2022 17:42:56 GMT -5
I second FF7's story is doesn't make sense. As a kid I gave up on the story, but if you read a synopsis it makes slightly more sense.
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Post by Ex on Feb 6, 2022 22:11:55 GMT -5
If this is normal for the JRPG genre, then JRPGs simply are not for me. Low difficulty is normal for casual JRPGs, which is what FF7 absolutely is. Casual JRPG players enjoy effortlessly grinding through trash mobs and level-beating bosses as some sort of meditative behavior. Nothing against anyone who enjoys doing that, but I don't recall anyone on HRG recommending FF7 to you personally. If you want to play challenging (thus more entertaining IMO) Japanese developed RPGs, I personally endorse and recommend these: Dark Souls / Dark Souls: Remastered (various platforms)
Demon's Souls (PS3) <-I only endorse the PS3 original, not the PS5 remaster. Etrian Odyssey (any game from the series as long as you play on Expert difficulty)
Front Mission 4 / Front Mission 5 (PS2) King's Field (entire series) Shadow Tower / Shadow Tower Abyss (entire series) Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga (PS2)
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne (PS2) <-I only endorse the original game, not the remaster. The 7th Saga (SNES)
Vagrant Story (PS1) And even though it's not particularly difficult, I still think you personally would love Phantasy Star IV on Genesis.
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Post by Xeogred on Feb 7, 2022 0:11:21 GMT -5
DuckStation baby.
Freaking hilarious how you start FF8 like this...
Level 7 5000 Gil 6 Potions 4 Phoenix Downs 2 Remedy Something else
That's so wack.
Now if I make it through this replay, I wonder if I'll change my mind and think that this whole SeeD and military school idea is... cool. I love the setting, Balamb Garden, and all that. But the idea of a military school and some students being world saviors is so ridiculous to me. It's a trope I see in anime frequently too, like Code Geass. In FF8's case it feels like one of the many ideas they remixed from FF7 (Avalanche) but make it a little more lame in ways. But who knows. I like FF8, so this will be interesting...
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Post by toei on Feb 7, 2022 20:55:14 GMT -5
I'm long past the 5 hours trial period I had thought up. I'm in Disc 2, about 17 hours in, last I checked. Unless it really falls apart dramatically, I'm probably in it until the end. True to Final Fantasy tradition, the early part was the best - I'd say the first 10 hours - as now we have entered FF's obligatory Crisis Mode, where it's all crisis, all the time. Despite this, FF8 is a lot more chill than other games in the series. It's just got a nice, laidback vibe that permeates things, even when everything is going wrong. I really like the game's world, more than anything. The story is somewhat intriguing, but it's the little moments that I find really impressive. Little side scenes or conversations with NPCs, small details in the main scenes. Whether or not one likes the story being told, FF8 was really a big step up in terms of how it was told. Lots of effort went into making things feel more alive - lots of animations and little physical reactions, all in in-game graphics, the comments people make, a somewhat more realistic style of dialogue. FF8 is really pretty great at some things. Quistis leaving her post to go apologize to Rinoa during the assassination attempt, though... at first it seemed like the dumbest thing in the universe. It only makes sense if she was worried that Rinoa was about to try something regarding the sorceress (which she was) that could derail the whole operation. But it's not presented like that, it's presented as "MAYBE I WAS TOO HARSH".
The dungeon design sucks. So far, it's almost always just one or two rooms being reused a bunch of times - one of the things I don't like about pre-rendered backgrounds, along with the navigation issues that tend to come with them. The sewer dungeon was terrible. I had no idea if I was even progressing or not, thanks to the weird-ass layout and the fact it was all the same damn CG drawings over and over. Really the low point of the game. I don't know what it is with late '90s Square and sewer dungeons. I loved Xenogears, but the sewers in that game were one of the most tedious stretch of gaming I ever put up with. I must have spent 3 hours running that damn place looking for that monster. At least FF8's was somewhat shorter. Also, there are almost no treasure chests, because there is no armor in this game, no extra weapons (you just upgrade yours very rarely), and even items and money barely matter. I'm really surprised how experimental the game's system is. As big and mainstream as Square was, they really did try to innovate. You don't even earn money through battles, you get a salary. You'll be walking around and suddenly you get a message saying you've been paid 8000G or something. The salary depends on your SEED ranking and is received every set amount of steps, I think. No, you don't need to grind for steps, because money doesn't matter. I barely ever buy anything, though renting cars is kinda nice.
Anyway, the dungeons sucking is mitigated by the fact that this game is less focused on that side of thing than most PSX RPGs by far. You sometimes go hours without seeing one, especially early on. The battles are still too slow, but they actually drag a lot less as you get further into the game because Junctioning and Drawing allows you to have characters that do lots of damage per turn. In the beginning, it would take 5-6 attacks to beat just one monster (except for the weakest ones), now it's more like 2. Makes a huge difference. I also have an ability that reduces the encounter rate by half, and I can get one that stops them completely. Early in the game, if you talk to this game's Cid at a specific time, he gives you a Magic Lamp and tells you it's cursed but might be useful. I got it, but completely forgot to check it out and never thought about it again, because I never have to go in my inventory. Then after the sewers I decided to see if there was a way to reduce encounters in the game and it turned out I already had the necessary item. You use the Magic Lamp and it summons Diablos, a really strong boss. Beat it and it joins you as a GF, with Encounter Half as a learnable ability (and No Encounter after that). When you're facing tough opponents like Diablo, the battle system is actually fun and even a little frantic because of the semi-real time nature of the ATB system.
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Post by Xeogred on Feb 7, 2022 21:37:03 GMT -5
Definitely one of FF8's strongest points. I think that holds from start to finish. I also think there's something about the OST that's classically Uematsu of course, but it seems kind of different from the rest. It also, is maybe more laid back than other FF OST's?
You've been hammering at this point... and honestly I keep drawing a blank on the dungeons myself. So I have no idea what to expect going through it again. Yeah, I was never kidding when I'd mention FF8 was vastly different than the rest of the series. Thus I was super curious what you and Ex would make of this one. For people that love and or hate FF, it's hard to tell what the reaction to FF8 could be. I'll have to try this and maybe soft cap myself with ~10 of whatever Magic when I draw stuff.
I'm still trying to refrain a bit on my biggest complaints until you and maybe others beat it. I guess it's mostly character/story stuff though. It's balls terrible in a few certain ways to me. But at least I recall liking the main cast overall a lot.
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