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Post by toei on Jun 27, 2023 2:05:44 GMT -5
Xeogred Yes. In the real world it's real-time shooting with guns with the overhead view, in the Matrix you have these maps with nodes that may be protected and you fight the protection/hack them picking software/moves in what I remember as something like a ATB system. Sarge I remember dying a lot to that jumping sequence involving the dragon's head towards the end. I had a hard time with the final boss as well. On the same topic, I found out that the final boss in the SNES Fighter's History, Mizoguchi Kiki Ippatsu, is Chelnov himself, and you can unlock him with a code! The Chelnov vs Karnov battle of legend: I played that game's Story Mode years ago, but I didn't know who he was. It's quite decent. Actually so is Dark Legend/Suiko Enbu. Data East wasn't bad at VS fighters.
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Post by Ex on Jun 27, 2023 8:34:40 GMT -5
I had a hard time with the final boss as well. The third form of the final boss is the part that aggravated me (the fight on top of Lady Liberty). I also had some irritation with that armored mecha boss. Because it took me a few tries to realize you couldn't hurt it initially, but rather had to dodge its attacks long enough for it to change forms into the floating head thing. To keep it accurate DE should have gave Chelnov only one life point, no life bar.
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Post by Sarge on Jun 27, 2023 8:36:12 GMT -5
The armored mecha boss was getting me. I'll get it down eventually.
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Post by Ex on Jun 27, 2023 8:39:30 GMT -5
SargeThere's probably different ways to avoid its attacks. What worked for me was getting in close, hanging out between the gun barrel and its foot. It's definitely tricky.
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Post by Sarge on Jun 27, 2023 10:07:24 GMT -5
Yeah, that's probably what I'm going to end up doing - he clipped me the last time I did that, but I think I can pull it off.
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Post by Ex on Jun 27, 2023 16:27:45 GMT -5
While we're at it, what's the difference between a non-linear arpg and an open world? I still don't really get it. Non-linear ARPG: Sequential self-inclusive stages, that are large "playgrounds" with mission objectives that the player can achieve in different order (or bypass some objectives) using whatever play style they like best (stealth/action/tactical). There isn't a true open world, as the missions take place in walled-off stages, though their may be a hub to access them. An example would be Deus Ex. Open world ARPG: Huge gameplay area the player can freely explore in any direction. Most missions are scattered throughout and can be engaged out of order. Mission undertaking happens in the same game world in an organic fashion (the player isn't whisked away to walled-off stages). There are some campaign missions that must be played in order, and they are unlocked in sequential fashion by the player doing requisite objectives during their campaign. Example would be Fallout 3. That's how I see it, but it's all semantics ultimately.
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Post by Xeogred on Jun 27, 2023 18:31:22 GMT -5
I wasn't sure if toei was just thinking of in an old school gaming sense or not. Since yeah, I can think of modern examples like you mentioned. Ah wait, well I guess Deus Ex is 20 some years old, Fallout 3 getting up there... lol.
Non-linear to me is a neighbor to the infamous Metroidvania. There's probably a very narrow main story. Many areas and scenarios could have multiple routes and or outcomes, but there's typically a dedicated finish line to many goals and parts. Some variety in how a player can maybe build their character, skills, playstyle, etc. System Shock and Ultima Underworld...
If the Genesis Shadowrun just plops you down on that huge city map and you're free to do a dozen things in any order... then yeah, could see that one being argued as open world to an extent. If Zelda 1 let you do any of the dungeons in any order, that'd be open world. It's still interesting how you can do a few of them in differing orders though.
There's some open world games I love and heck, had a blast with Tears of the Kingdom this year obviously. But like right now I'm finally playing Cyberpunk 2077 and can't help but think it'd be a much better game more in the Deus Ex style. Non-linear/Metroidvania games will always have my favor in the end and seem more "focused" in design comparatively. You feel a sense of progression more, at least I do. Open world is like, here's a big playground, have fun. But sometimes that lack of direction or incremental upgrades and such, makes it a little hard to care.
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Post by Sarge on Jun 27, 2023 21:44:27 GMT -5
Whew, got it. Atomic Runner is done. Skipped back to the stage I died at before, and hanging out at the mech's feet was indeed the right move. Crowded in enough, you just need to move around precisely to avoid the smaller shots - he didn't even fire at me with the big gun while close in.
Last stage had some tricky bits for sure. I died a few times on the dragon, probably six or seven times before I figured it out. And the last boss was intense, too - lots of RNG in that second phase, if you hang back he'll just walk right over you. Not a good way to die! But if you get him to the last phase, dodging the stuff on the Statue of Liberty doesn't end up being too bad... I lost four or five attempts figuring it out, but if you hit him enough he'll recoil to the right side of the screen and head your way, and if you keep blasting him, he dashes in hard. But if you hit him with enough then, too, he just recoils again, so you can drop him fast with the right weapon. Which for me ended up being the quite powerful swirling spike shot. Homing missiles are tempting for that battle but they have terrible DPS.
This is definitely one of Data East's stronger titles, and I was much more impressed with this one than the arcade version I tried a while back. I'm waffling between "very good" and "great", and I think I'm going to err on the high side here. An intense, unique experience that was also quite frustrating, but the game gives you plenty of tools to make it through legit. Well, as legit as jacking up your continues and lives can be, haha. 8/10
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Post by Ex on Jun 27, 2023 23:53:48 GMT -5
Sarge Nice job, it's a tough game. The final boss's third form, with the stuff that shoots out of its back, is what annoyed me when I tried to go over it. Loved that Statue of Liberty backdrop, though. - And speaking of hard shmups, holy hell was this one tough: Title: BarunbaPlatform: PC Engine Region release played: Japan Year of release: 1990 Developer: Zap Publisher: Namco Graphics: 3/5 Audio: 3/5 Challenge: 5/5 Fun factor: 3/5 Quick Thoughts: Barunba is a Japan-only PC Engine shmup released in 1990 (it got an English fan translation but that's largely unnecessary). The player controls a boy in a ship with rotating turrets, meaning the player controls the rotation of the guns around said ship, which alters the firing trajectory in tandem. The player will shoot through five long stages, complete with mid-bosses and end stage bosses. A variety of weapon types are available, able to be cycled by the player at will. Barunba is an extraordinarily difficult obscurity only recommended to the most ardent of shmup fans. +Unusual firing mechanic thanks to rotating ship turrets. +The auto-scrolling stages sometimes change direction, adding traversal variety. +A multitude of weapon types to counter ever-changing enemy opposition. +Strong boss fights with a bit of a puzzle-ness to them. +A large variety of enemy types (that tend to move quickly and shoot even faster). -Everything's shooting at you from multiple directions, with enemy bullets having no uniformity in visual design. -Some serious bullet hell at times, and not the fun Cave kind either. -Your weapons constantly weaken as they shoot, so the player must continuously collect weapon power-ups.
-You have one life, and if (when) you die, there are no continues. -There's no point scoring system at all. Ex's time to beat: 50 minutes
Ex's rating: 6/10
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And that's gonna wrap this theme up for me.
Here's what I beat for this one:
Atomic Runner GEN 8/10 Barunba PCE 6/10
Cross Wiber: Cyber Combat Police PCE 7/10
Fortified Zone GB 7/10 Holy Umbrella: Dondera no Mubo SFC 8/10
Ikari no Yousai 2 GB 7.5/10 Operation Logic Bomb SNES 7/10 The Legendary Axe TG16 7/10
See you all next month via the 5th generation.
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Post by toei on Jun 28, 2023 10:00:25 GMT -5
I tried Barunba at one point and my first impression was positive thanks to the rotating guns (similar to Forgotten Worlds, but I thought they controlled better than the console versions of it). I dropped it immediately when I saw you only have one life. Zap's other TG-16 shmup Dead Moon also seemed cool, but in the end it's just average. It's not super hard, though. And yeah, for the non-linear ARPG vs Open world, I was talking about it from an old-school point of view. I don't really understand what Ex means by enclosed stages. Like dungeons? Or are you talking about literal separate stages? Cause that hardly sounds RPG-like. Shadowrun reminds me of some later games I've played in the way you can spend more time doing optional things than the main story, and yes, you can go pretty much anywhere right away. The only thing I can recall to sort of enforce a natural progression is that the Runs you can take in certain areas are going to be easier (and pay less) than those in other areas, so you would naturally work your way up in that way. But it's not like once you make it to an area, you don't have any reason to go back or anything. The main argument I can see against it being a proto-open world (since that term didn't exist when it made, and it was just called a RPG) is scale - the world is divided into a few neighborhoods and one nature area you travel between via taxi, it's not really that big.
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