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Post by toei on Jan 2, 2024 19:04:21 GMT -5
The Gagharv trilogy (LOH 3-4-5) games are still very low on dungeons and fighting and very text-heavy, but maybe a little less long-winded. The PSP versions are remakes, they originally came out on the PC-98 in the '90s. Before those versions came out, I remember hearing Moonlight Witch was supposed to be this great classic we were missing out on. I think those awful translations (which start out half-decent and get worse and worse, as if they only paid an editor for a couple days) killed the desire for those games among English-language fans. I'll say Moonlight seemed like it might be good if properly localized. I hated Song of the Ocean, but then I was tired of the whole thing by then, and it had the worst translation.
Even the first Legend of Heroes, which came out in 1989, only had something like 4-5 dungeons, none of them very long, for like 14 towns. In fact I'd say it was the first story-heavy Japanese RPG ever made, long before it became the standard. Visible monsters in dungeons, too, at least on the Turbo CD. But because it was '89, the story moved along at a quick pace. That's what makes it a good 8-bit RPG.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 2, 2024 19:14:45 GMT -5
That's something I appreciate about a lot of older RPGs. They really did get the lead out story-wise. Stuff like Final Fantasy IV or Chrono Trigger developed at a blistering pace.
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Post by Ex on Jan 3, 2024 10:59:10 GMT -5
something I appreciate about a lot of older RPGs. They really did get the lead out story-wise. Agreed. In the first hour of an 8/16-bit JRPG, we'd would have a story intro, a bit of town exploration and NPC talking, some shopping, some overworld exploration, a bit of dungeon crawling, and maybe even beat the first boss. With 32-bit and beyond JRPGs, we're lucky if in the first hour the intro is done and we've managed to even step foot outside of town yet. One of the reasons I don't like using walkthroughs with RPGs, is because it does, as you say, slow down an already long game. I mean when you're trying to do every optional thing. Generally, I don't mind missing the optional stuff. I'd rather just find whatever I find, without a walkthrough spoiling upcoming surprises. I'm fine with my playthrough being an organic experience, in fact I prefer it that way.
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Post by toei on Jan 3, 2024 11:11:16 GMT -5
With 16-bit RPGs I never skip a side-quest (unless it's hidden and missable) because it's usually nice additional content that the game can use. I won't use a FAQ throughout, but just before the end I used to like to pull one to see if I missed anything big before fighting the final boss. For example, I can't imagine playing Phantasy Star IV and not doing the Hunter's Guild missions and the other side-quests, because each of them have their own little stories which show you more of the game's world and people, which you care about in PSIV because it's interesting and there's just enough of it that you want more, and usually they're quick little things - maybe two quick convos and a boss fight, maybe a mini 10-minutes dungeon that you can't access otherwise. The rewards are usually nice too - just beating the Giant Sandworm early on usually has everyone going up 2-3 levels, on top of the money you make. But the Hunter's Guild missions in Phantasy Star Online suck; it's all redundant revisits through the same few dungeons and it takes up most of the game, because it's a MMO. A lot of later RPGs adopted that MMO aspect of side-quests being boring mundane tasks and other unnecessary, non-fun nonsense, and gave side-quests a bad name. I used to love side-quests.
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Post by Ex on Jan 3, 2024 11:57:59 GMT -5
Yeah modern JRPGs love their MMO drivel side-quests. I immediately think of Xenoblade Chronicles and how I did zero side-quests with that game because they were so utterly banal. Also, I wasn't trying to infer that I don't do side-quests. I usually do the side-quests I find on my own. It has been my observation, as someone who has beaten as many WRPGs as JRPGs, that WRPGs tend to have better side-quests than JRPGs.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 3, 2024 13:25:26 GMT -5
It's one of the things that I think dragged down Dragon Quest IX so much. Yes, they were optional, but almost all of them were banal, uninteresting quests that didn't generally give great rewards, either.
Assuming they don't ape the MMORPG style in WRPGs (and they do more often than I care for), yes, often they're a lot more interesting. It's why I appreciated the way the BioWare of old handled these things. There was almost always some story benefit to it, as well as significant tangible rewards for completing the quest. Of course, JRPGs can get this right, too, with the most prominent example being Chrono Trigger, whose sidequests before Lavos are all full of brand new, interesting content.
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Post by toei on Jan 3, 2024 14:29:40 GMT -5
I think most of those mid-'90s 16-bit RPGs have nice side-quests, since they were still rare at the time and usually either had a good self-contained story or served to develop individual characters. FFVI, Chrono, PSIV, etc. Lufia 2 had an entire optional roguelike that was like 99 floors! So that's pretty nice, too.
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Post by Ex on Jan 3, 2024 14:51:24 GMT -5
Japanese studios have made loads of MMOJRPGs in the past twenty years. If anything JRPGs are aping MMOJRPGs rather than MMOWRPGs - when it comes to banality of their side-quests. Also, MMORPG is only one flavor of WRPG (the most inferior flavor). Bioware's classics do a great job on side-quests. Last year I found Red Dead Redemption 2 (an action-WRPG) and Risen both had great side-quests, being developed by western studios entirely. A lot more interesting side-quests than I saw in say Xenoblade Chronicles or Dragon Quest IX certainly.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 3, 2024 15:58:57 GMT -5
Xenoblade is a great game, but yeah, it's very much patterned after MMORPGs with most of its optional quests.
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Post by Ex on Jan 3, 2024 17:05:31 GMT -5
I think Xenoblade Chronicles is a good game, but just shy of great. It was overrated due to being on Wii (a system starved of JRPGs at the time) and initially was forbidden fruit for USA players (increasing weeb desire). If XC1 had released on PS3 first, it never would have been as praised as it was. I think XC1 has excellent world exploration, nice graphics for Wii, and a great OST... those are the best things about it. My main issues with the game; its combat system sucks, it has a lame overwrought plot, the side-quests are boring, and the last 25% of the campaign is an absolute slog.
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