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Post by Ex on Jan 12, 2024 1:18:59 GMT -5
I think it's important to mess with a real bottom-tier, piece of trash game one in a while, if only briefly, to maintain a realistic sense of quality scale. I can admire your stubbornness to habitually dive into consoles' trash bins, hoping to find that hidden, cracked, lost and forgotten blemished gem. Most of the time, if we're being honest, there's just old poop in there. Maybe kick your PS2 third-person shooting spree into at least C-tier with this stuff: Or if you're still in the mood for D-tier autoflaggelation: My 11 year HLTB review scores aggregate to 7/10. That's because 7/10 is the lowest common denominator I'm normally willing to finish games at. Thus most of my beats end up being skewed towards 7/10. It's rare that I'll finish a game that is (in my perspective) less than a 7/10, unless there's a special circumstance, or it's very short. Why bother when there are tons of 7/10 and better games out there. My stance is life's too short for beating bad games. Unless that's some kind of fetish for someone, in that case have "fun"...
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Post by toei on Jan 12, 2024 1:56:24 GMT -5
Ex I have a strong preference for Japanese games over Western games, so I only really rummage in the Japanese bottom tier usually. I also have a certain attachment to the Simple series, since I've found 4-5 good ones amidst all the trash. Also, when a Simple game is awful, it's immediately apparent. It doesn't get undone by some deceiving flaw hours in. Tamsoft's all suck, though, and they were by far the most prolific providers of Simple games. Matter of fact, the only decent Tamsoft game I know is Guardian Crusade. I'm definitely willing to try some Western shooters since America has always had a strong shooter culture ( in real life lol), but now that I know what a middle-of-the-road Western TPS is like (at least in the early days), I'll only bother with the standouts. When I'm in the mood. What's the best sniper-based game you know? I did try The Punisher already. It's probably not bad - I like the mechanic that lets you peer through cracks in walls or doors and snipe enemies from outside the room - but I wouldn't play through it. I still want to play through at least one PS2 GTA, but the other sandbox and shooter crime games from that era all seem stale to me, like they never had any real lasting appeal. You could switch out the missions/levels between them and no one would notice. It's not the subject matter, I love gangster movies. They're just generic charmless games to me. The Without Warning devs' resume is the most dubious I've ever seen: 2006 FIFA World Cup (2006 on DVD Player) (it's a quiz game too) The Price Is Right With Your Host: Joe Pasquale (2006 on DVD Player) Without Warning (2005 on PlayStation 2, Xbox) Now That's What I Call a Music Quiz (2005 on DVD Player)
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Post by Ex on Jan 12, 2024 2:18:11 GMT -5
What I worry about here is, since you recently became interested in third person/cover shooters, that you may shy away from the genre, due to playing too many duds, because you are avoiding the best third person/cover shooters. Aside from The 3rd Birthday, the rest I've seen you play, are not stuff I would recommend. Don't want to see you spoil a new interest for yourself via avoiding the best stuff. I'm definitely willing to try some Western shooters since America has always had a strong shooter culture ( in real life lol), but now that I know what a middle-of-the-road Western TPS is like (at least in the early days), I'll only bother with the standouts. I think the greatest western-developed third person shooter on PS2 would be Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. But you're better off playing it on PC, really. Some of the games I listed above are Japanese-developed, by the way. As far as third person view goes, I think your best bet is the Sniper Elite series: gamefaqs.gamespot.com/games/franchise/1406-sniper-elite
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Post by toei on Jan 12, 2024 2:42:37 GMT -5
I'm not interested in super spy stuff. Maybe that'll change after I play MGS, maybe not. But Sniper Elite might do it for me.
When I try games I don't necessarily play them for very long. In the end I'm sorting through the pile and keeping the few I'm going to play for real, because if I just listened to the "consensus", I would have never played The 3rd Birthday. It was supposed to be terrible, according to the Internet. I'd play another 3rd Birthday in a heartbeat. So it shouldn't turn me off from the genre. I've been doing the early generations so far because it's the easiest to access for me. If I want to play a shooter from the prime PS3/360 era, I have to buy it on Steam (though I guess some PS3 emulation is possible, haven't tried it though), clear 30g of space from my small internal drive, and hope it'll run fine (I've run one port of a PS3 game before, Way of the Samurai 3, so in theory it might be fine). I'm not going to be just impulse-buying everything. Which is why I picked three - Vanquish, Lost Planet, Binary Domain. Eventually I'll be getting to them. Oh yeah, I did retain Resistance: Retribution for to-play list, too, so that's at least one Western game. On the surface it looks like the American counterpart to the 3rd Birthday - all-out human vs monsters war, visceral action with cover mechanics. I'll be playing Metal Gear Solid, too, which is third-person shooter adjacent.
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Post by Ex on Jan 12, 2024 10:55:30 GMT -5
if I just listened to the "consensus", I would have never played The 3rd Birthday. It was supposed to be terrible, according to the Internet. I'm not sure which internet you're referring to. This game has a 71 Metacritic score equating to 7/10, I wouldn't say that's "terrible". Multiple users on this forum told you T3B is a good game before you played it. Unless you meant a "terrible" consensus coming from other forums. I do know some PE fans didn't like T3B because it was so dissimilar from the first PE. Just like they didn't like PE2 for the same reason. I can comprehend if they didn't like the genre shift, but it's a well made game for its genre (cover shooter). >If I want to play a shooter from the prime PS3/360 era, I have to buy it on Steam It's disappointing to me that some of the better cover shooters from PS3/360 remain exclusive to console. Like Army of Two, Gears of War 2 and Fuse for instance. I don't know the state of 360/PS3 emulation, maybe it's good now? Probably a case by case basis. As far as "western" developed cover-shooters go, the most popular by far was the Gears of War series, only a few of those got PC ports: GoW1, GoW4, and GoW5. And the western developed Uncharted series, heavy on cover shooting, was also super popular on PlayStation consoles (exclusive to that ecosystem). Sarge I know is a big fan of the Uncharted franchise, perhaps he could write to their quality. I've only beaten two of the middling entries in that series (the first entry and the Vita off-shoot) but I understand the later games 2-4 are supposedly really good. >I picked three - Vanquish, Lost Planet, Binary Domain My consensus with those: Vanquish = 9/10 (I beat this) Lost Planet = 6/10 (not beat yet, score may change) Binary Domain = 7/10 (I beat this) So in that short list only one game do I consider extraordinary. >Resistance: Retribution I do consider this one a bit of a hidden gem on PSP. I thought it was rather good, and technically impressive for PSP. As a cover shooting off-shoot, R:R is rather different than its main series (straight up FPS), so it was ignored by franchise fans I guess. You would likely enjoy the two Syphon Filter games that originated on PSP and were ported to PS2. >I'll be playing Metal Gear Solid Definitely play through the original 1999 MGS. Either emulated via PS1, or play the 2000 PC version (actually a good port by Digital Dialect published by Microsoft). If you enjoy MGS, do not sleep on Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence. It is a prequel to MGS1, so you don't have to worry about playing MGS2 (only worth it for morbid curiosity, MGS2 is a mess). I beat MGS3:S on PS2 back in 2006 or 2007, and it blew me away. It's the best game in the series for my tastes. With the caveat I've not played through MGS5 yet. I'd like to get to that this year, actually.
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Post by Xeogred on Jan 12, 2024 11:15:13 GMT -5
toei playing Gears of War and Uncharted will be a wild day if it happens. Gears of War was cool at the time because XBL was also kind of popular and it was late high school era for me, kind of the zeitgeist of my bro shooter era. I played through the campaign co-op with a friend online and that was cool. Gears of War's bread and butter is rather boring though because it's so cover focused. I know the sequels improved things and I watched some friends play most of 2 in person at some point. But I didn't care enough to continue. Gears of War still being one of Xbox's staple series (well I guess even lately some fans think it's been mistreated now), kind of blows me away. It was nothing that special gameplay wise. I wouldn't be surprised if the aesthetic looks extra dorky now too. I thought the first Uncharted was pretty bad and couldn't finish it. The ski/boat sections controlled like a nuisance. And the controls/combat were terrible. You have to constantly pickup lame guns left and right to keep using them, something about it bugged me a lot. It wasn't like Lost Planet where I'm running around with 900 bullets in my machine gun.
Uncharted 2 is the popular one and while it's like a ~6 hour game, it felt like it took me 6 weeks to beat. Just way too "cinematic" for my tastes and again, the actual gameplay there was nothing interesting at all. I honestly like all the modern Tomb Raider's a lot more. They feel more videogamey in a good way to me. A few years ago I tried playing Uncharted 3 finally (I got the remaster trilogy for free digitally on PS4 somehow), and I got so bored an hour in or something. On the flip side, I really enjoyed the first Last of Us. Everything about the gameplay just felt way better to me for Naughty Dog's take on these genres.
Playing Lost Planet now in 2024, sure I can see how it won't be blowing many people away and probably is a bit of a B effort on Capcom's part (but what was AAA for them in 2006? Just a weird era in general for Japanese developers). I'm still having fun though like I've mentioned in the Club thread. If anything, toei's got some variety there with the three TPS's he picked out. I like Binary Domain more than Ex. It also had some hilarious writing, with some insensitive nationality tropes that I got a kick out of if one can still laugh at such things. Vanquish is clearly one of the best of its kind and best game being mentioned here for the most part. But sometimes I think it's a little overrated. If I have a nitpick with Vanquish to an extent, it's that it is high octane, foot slammed on the gas from start to finish. It doesn't let up. And it's not too long. So what I mean by this is it's awesome in the moment and I can recall a few iconic bosses and moments, but beyond that being able to remember "specifics" about Vanquish is rather hard for me to think of. I'll probably replay it someday on PC and have a blast again. But yeah, just kind of a ... blink and you miss it sort of game. If any of this makes sense. It doesn't have a detailed lasting impression on me with a lot to chew on like survival horror stuff. But I clearly have my bias in what I love in TPS's. The slower methodical horror stuff, fighting monsters, no cover, ammo scarcity, adventure vibes... that'll always be my main jam with this stuff.
Also a bit of an curveball recommendation, maybe toei would like Mass Effect? The combat is serviceable in all three games but them being a huge RPG saga over a whole trilogy gives it a lot more going on for it that makes them so amazing.
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Post by Ex on Jan 12, 2024 11:32:50 GMT -5
I thought the first Uncharted was pretty bad and couldn't finish it. It definitely wasn't great. The Vita off-shoot Golden Abyss was a little better. The main issue I had with those two games, was how monotonous and repetitive the gunplay was. The appeal is definitely about the guided platforming and cutscenes galore, at least with those two entries. >Last of Us I beat that one on PS4, and was surprised I ended up giving it an 8/10. It actually is a legitimately good game, with proper cover shooting and technically amazing graphics. No idea if toei would like it, but yeah worth a play. I can't speak to the sequel at all, never played. >Vanquish = high octane, foot slammed on the gas from start to finish. It doesn't let up. That's what I loved about it. It's balls to the wall from menu to credits. If the game starred a sexy female protagonist, instead of a dude, I would have given it a 10/10. >maybe toei would like Mass Effect? I think the ME trilogy were the best action- WRPGs of the 7th gen. I loved them (to the point of even doing all the DLCs, which I rarely care about) I know Sarge did, pretty sure you did too. Certainly worth a try for toei. And yes, the ME games are heavy on cover shooting.
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Post by toei on Jan 12, 2024 11:44:23 GMT -5
I have zero inclination to play Uncharted, that's for sure. Gears of War at least might be fun, even if the aesthetic is not my thing and probably whatever story it has either. I just watched some gameplay and huh... are you fighting Warcraft orcs or something? With the comically gruff voices and everything. Mass Effect is one of those titles I've heard a million times but never paid any mind to. Maybe I'll look into it.
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Post by Xeogred on Jan 12, 2024 11:56:58 GMT -5
Taking a step back here, toei have you even played RE4 yet? It truly did change the industry and set the stage for all this stuff we're talking about. And the jokes about people buying it 10 times over, replaying it all the time, are true, as I'm guilty as charged. The remake last year is incredible but I can still see myself going back to the OG. It's a gem. Coming from WinBack, it'd probably be the next logical step in the evolution of good TPS's and how aiming changed over the years. You can't aim and walk in RE4 at the same time, so it still takes a few minutes for me to adjust even on replay #30, but yeah you eventually got in a good groove with it. Ex : Honestly, you're not wrong with that idea on Vanquish. I bet Bayonetta wouldn't be as iconic all these years later, if the series was about some Dante/DMC knockoff bro or something. I always think of Vanquish and Bayonetta together, since they were early Platinum hits. I like Vanquish a lot more than Bayonetta 1-2 gameplay wise, but yeah I can't even name the dude in the suit. Real shame it wasn't Vanessa again or some cool Motoko Kusanagi type in a cool suit. It'd be more legendary then and maybe we would have gotten sequels... lol.
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Post by toei on Jan 12, 2024 12:04:46 GMT -5
Xeogred The idea of a ultra-manly band buff Bayonetto whipping enemies with his long hair is both cursed and hilarious. I added RE4 to my try list a couple weeks ago.
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