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Post by Xeogred on Oct 20, 2024 9:37:54 GMT -5
Yeah, I'll forever think it's crazy now that SMT kind of beat Pokemon to this idea. But seems to remain a bit niche', even with Atlus' increasing personality with Persona. Maybe good news for me, SMT will remain more hardcore. I should give those Last Bible games a look someday. And as I joke with this MD genre, I guess if I like any of them I won't be without options for more. Still seems like some of the DQ stuff would be the ones to check out. I like to see that a lot of them are bite sized too? ~12 hour games or so, with a lot of post game content. I never mind when games do that or hold it against them. If the game is just that awesome and addicting, there's tons more to play. But if one wants to move on after rolling credits, it doesn't seem like a huge investment needed. More games should be like this...
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Post by toei on Oct 20, 2024 16:13:15 GMT -5
The main difference with Pokémon is that only the monsters fight (not the case with SMT and Last Bible), and as I understand it they revolve around monster tournaments, so they're really fully centered on this concept. But monster catching definitely wasn't new, and even DQVI beat them to the punch with monster tournaments - it came out about 3 month before the first Pokémon games came out in Japan, except it was just a side-quest. Supposedly the first pitch for Pokémon was made to Nintendo in 1990, though. They just didn't like it at first, and it took a long time to get it underway. But the original Megami Tensei is from 1987. Of course, neither the Megami Tensei games nor Dragon Quest V and VI came out West at the time, so we didn't have access to any of the Japanese RPGs that let you capture monsters and didn't know about them.
There was a Mac-only shareware RPG we used to play at a friend's house in elementary school called Realmz which was out a few years before Pokémon. It let you capture monsters into scrolls so you could use them in battle, in addition to your human party. Sometimes you'd just find or were able to buy scrolls with monsters as well. I thought it was the coolest thing ever at the time. So I'm not so surprised Pokémon exploded like it did. I would have probably played it if the aesthetic were cooler. I had a friend who got it on an early Game Boy emulator and went from making fun of it to becoming addicted for a while.
Last Bible plays like standard fantasy RPGs, going from town to town and dungeon to dungeon, except you recruit (and fuse) demons in addition to a couple of human characters. The first game is decent in its Game Gear port, but it's not a must-play. Just a cool, quick little '90s-style RPG for people like me who really love the genre. I don't recommend the GB original though, it's ugly, slow, and has a horrible localization. Last Bible 2 is just so-so. I'm looking forward to trying the final one, though, as it graduated to the SNES and looks great visually. It looks like effort went into it.
Dragon Quest Monsters goes back-and-forth between being tournament-centered Pokémon-style games and standard DQ-style RPGs with monster catching and breeding. The latter style consists of DQM2 on the GBC and Caravan Hearts on the GBA, I recommend both. 1 was cool at first but got limited and tiring to me, the Joker games are cool for what they are. I don't know what the more recent one is like.
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Post by Sarge on Oct 20, 2024 20:45:36 GMT -5
With Ex visiting for the last few days, we did get in some co-op gaming and knock out a few games. For the ones that don't fit into this month's Club Retro: Arcus Odyssey was the first on the docket. Wolf Team developed this one, and at first blush it looks like an action-RPG, but it's closer to something like Gauntlet, or maybe Alcahest. The levels can get quite maze-like and haphazard, and there's a surprising amount of dialogue for a game of its ilk. Granted, not all that dialogue was spectacularly localized, but I appreciate the effort. And it gave us chances to do ridiculous voices for some of the segments. (I might have busted out my hopefully-improving Donald Trump impression a few too many times for humor.) It probably took us about 2.5 hours to finish co-op: I used the red-haired lady with the chain flail, Ex used the blue-haired elf girl with the bow and arrows. We did a solid job communicating and keeping each other's health and inventory managed, so the game ended up being quite easy. I'd say it's a 6.5 in co-op. I suspect it would be less fun alone. Mushihime-sama is a vertically-scrolling Cave shooter, and in general, when you hear Cave and bullet hell, you're gonna be in for a solid time, and this one's no exception. I wouldn't say it hits the level of a DoDonPachi, but we enjoyed our time with it. I'd say it's a 7/10 at least. Honoring Halloween month, we jumped into Deathsmiles. Another Cave shooter, although this one sees you playing as cutesy witches and you can fire ahead and behind. Ex stomped me in scoring - I wasn't even paying attention trying to get scoring drops... But we had solid fun with that, too. I'd probably give it a 6 or 6.5/10, though, although maybe if we'd played the Black Label version it would have been more enjoyable overall. Finally, we tried to emulate Deathsmiles II. Turns out MAME doesn't support it. Or at least the version I had. So we went for the PC port instead through *ahem* alternative means. Ain't nobody got time for droppin' $40 for it on Steam. Very similar to the first game, although the plot is... Christmas-themed? Strange. And you face off against "Satan Claws". Ho ho ho indeed.  Also some weird surprising "I want a sexy outfit" stuff at the end from underage-looking girls that I'm pretty sure landed us on a list somewhere. As Ex said, I think we figured out why it carries a $40 price tag.  I'd give it a 6/6.5 as well. Something I do think leads to lower scores from me on arcade games is likely how low-resistance they are when you can quarter-feed them. It does steal any of the challenge/suspense. Honestly, though, I feel like we navigated the shooters shockingly well overall - especially Deathsmiles I/II, where I felt like we didn't even die all that much. I'm wanting to say we did like a 3CC clear on Deathsmiles II. |
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Post by toei on Oct 20, 2024 21:13:47 GMT -5
My solution to the latter issue is self-imposing a credits limit. Usually my baseline is 2 per total number of stages, since arcade games are often harder. But usually if it's good I'll play it a few times until I'm satisfied I've gotten decent enough at it. It's much more satisfying that way.
Reminds me I gotta get around to Arcus Odyssey.
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Post by Xeogred on Oct 20, 2024 21:25:03 GMT -5
Hah, see I don't love DonDonPachi and forget which of them I liked the most, but Mushihimesama is a top 3 shmup for me alongside Gradius V and Thunder Force IV. It's the one arcade shmup I'd like to try and 1cc someday if I get possessed to do it. It seems doable enough and not crazy on Normal at least. This is truly the game that made me appreciate bullet hell more and I guess it set the bar really high. I own the JP import of Futari on 360, it's pretty cool too but I like the first game more.
Wasn't too big on Deathsmiles myself.
It's a newer game and not sure if it was multiplayer, but give Devil Engine a shot someday. It's freaking hard. I was happy enough to beat the game using 10 credits after a point. For awhile you have to play a lot to unlock more credits. But yeah eventually you get infinite and I think that was the best I could do. Awesome game though, feels like a real legit modern Thunder Force that goes for the guttural.
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Post by Ex on Oct 21, 2024 12:10:37 GMT -5
I'll throw in some quick thoughts on the games Sarge and I co-op beat. I do agree with everything he said, in general, about all these games. We talked about their plusses and minuses as we played through them, so I'm not surprised we're on the same page all around. I'll try to remember how long these took to beat, but if I get it wrong, Sarge set me straight!  Arcus Odyssey 1991 Genesis   -This is a game I've been mildly interested in for decades, and always meant to beat. It ends up being kind of like Gauntlet, except with very simple puzzle solving at times. The action is unceasingly frenetic with enemies that respawn the second their spawn point is off screen and back on again. The game has (Genesis version at least) nasty slowdown often, but that tends to work to one's benefit for avoiding enemy projectiles. Overall the combat is very projectile oriented, for both the players and the enemies. Stages are absolute non-sequitur mazes making little logical sense, but one can orient through them well enough. I ended up liking the graphics and audio, as both have the lo-fi gritty early Genesis aesthetic that is so iconic to the platform. Some of the bosses were impressive graphically, and this game uses some large sprites for that. The plot's localization is in Engrish territory, taking itself far too seriously to the point that it came off comedic. Maybe because I was playing co-op with another skilled player, the difficulty seemed quite low. I supposed that's a boon for someone playing single player. While it's more of a dungeon themed third person shooter, rather than an action-JRPG, Arcus Odyssey was decent. I do think toei might enjoy this one. Sarge here's something we never saw: Ex's time to beat (via local co-op): 2.5 hours
Ex's score: 6/10-  Mushihimesama 2004 Arcade -It's a bullet hell vertically scrolling shmup, the kind that Cave is known for making. This was fun enough, but to me came across as way more style than substance. I liked all the large animated CG backgrounds/bosses, and there sure were some pretty bullet hell spreads to avoid. As usual for Cave games the player sprite has a tiny hit box, so it's not too hard to avoid the streams of enemy bullets. Gameplay was not innovative at all, standard fair shmup action 101 here. I guess the cute girls versus giant bugs aesthetic, with nice graphics, is all it took to make a lot of folks loved this one. I wasn't super impressed, but certainly didn't have a bad time. I'll also add the difficulty seemed well balanced for an arcade game. Ex's time to beat (via local co-op): 45 minutes
Ex's score: 7/10  Deathsmiles 2007 Arcade   -It's a bullet hell horizontally scrolling shmup, another Cave jam. This time you're gothic lolita witches flying around casting magic shots at enemies. There's an occult based theme, leaning towards Halloween in particular. A lot of the character designs are based on mythological beasts and monsters, such as a cyclops, the Grim Reaper, trolls and even dragons. The game takes place in a variety of horror-inspired locations such as a graveyard, a haunted forest, and a subterranean cave complete. The combat is kind of like Forgotten Worlds or Battle Mania: Daiginjō, where you're constantly switching shooting in front of, or behind, one's self. Aside from the cutesy gothic theme, there's nothing imaginative or unique about the shmup game design. It's very standard fair, with the heavy dose of Cave bullet shooting. With lower average difficulty and only seven (IIRC) short stages, it's also a rather short play. I suppose if someone likes cute little witches and Halloween a lot, this is worth a playthrough. A decent bit of shmup fluff worth playing in October.
Ex's time to beat (via local co-op): 25 minutes
Ex's score: 6/10
Deathsmiles II: Makai no Merry Christmas 2009 (original arcade release date) PC   -Deathsmiles all over again, except Christmas themed. Zero innovation to speak of over its predecessor, except for more protagonists to choose from, and a bit more effort put into plot presentation. The plot, by the way, is simply little witches must save Christmas. But are you a bad enough loli to take down Satan Claws? Probably because the difficulty is quite low overall. It's also another short run like its predecessor. I suppose the biggest letdown here is how this sequel is so similar to its predecessor. It feels like a Christmas reskin of the original Deathsmiles. However, if someone loved the first game, and just wanted exactly more of that, well here you are. And you even get to take down Rudolph the spite nosed giant reindeer. Well at least this shmup has a sense of humor. Oh, and a word of warning. The disingenuous outta nowhere NSFW ending we got, went straight into questionable pedo-content land. Unexpected, and will likely land you on Santa's naughty list.
Ex's time to beat (via local co-op): 25 minutes
Ex's score: 6/10 |
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Post by paulofthewest on Oct 21, 2024 18:51:36 GMT -5
Nice! Sounds like some fun co-op adventures.
Watching some youtube, Arcus Odyssey does look like classic Genesis. Might have to pick that one up.
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Post by toei on Oct 21, 2024 21:17:29 GMT -5
I totally forgot that there was a SNES version of Arcus Odyssey that only came out in Japan (as Arcus Spirits). Looks very close actually, probably the most Genesis-looking SNES game if anything.
Also, while Odyssey is not an RPG, it's a spin-off of an actual RPG trilogy for Japanese computers. I'm impressed it has visible monsters rather than random encounters. Even the first Legend of Heroes has visible and avoidable monsters on the overworld in some versions (IIRC you need to use an item to make them visible in the Turbo CD version, but it's worth it). It wasn't that rare in older Japanese computer RPGs, so it's a shame it took forever for their more popular console counterparts to catch up.
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Post by Ex on Oct 21, 2024 21:23:32 GMT -5
paulofthewest toeiYeah I wouldn't call Arcus Odyssey a hidden gem or anything, but it's at least worth sampling. Who knows you might find it engaging enough to beat solo. It does have a bit of strategy with having to juggle your limited inventory, and it also has a password system, so you can "save" legitimately even.
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Post by Sarge on Oct 21, 2024 21:57:54 GMT -5
I actually remember seeing Arcus Odyssey in Nintendo Power. Another one of those games like GDLeen or Psycho Dream that didn't make it over (Lost Mission and Dream Probe, respectively). I figure there's a prototype of those floating around somewhere.
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Also some weird surprising "I want a sexy outfit" stuff at the end from underage-looking girls that I'm pretty sure landed us on a list somewhere. As 
I'd give it a 6/6.5 as well.
