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Post by Sarge on Nov 22, 2020 14:22:21 GMT -5
Except for King's Field. And probably Dark Souls.
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Post by Ex on Nov 22, 2020 15:13:15 GMT -5
I have not played enough of the Souls series to offer an informed opinion there, but the King's Field games actually differ considerably from each other. Sure they outwardly look like the same thing visually, but the internal level design ethos, combat mechanics (including magic systems), overt exploratory flow, and challenge level varies from game to game. Also each KF game's plot is wholly different from the other. Then you get into the Shadow Tower stuff, and things alter even further. It's a misconception that the KF series are carbon copy iterations, it ain't so.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 22, 2020 16:39:33 GMT -5
Just joshin' with you a bit.
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Post by Xeogred on Nov 22, 2020 18:05:40 GMT -5
The jump to the X series was pretty huge, but same situation. I agree, MMX was the first huge improvement to the MM series since MM2. But then it all started again, as many more MMX sequels were basically just new level packs. Some people enjoy sequels that are remixed carbon copies of what came before. Some people want sequels to bring forth innovation and clever new mechanics. While I don't begrudge the former, I'm of the latter camp. This is why I'll be extra curious to get your take on Dark Souls. I'm still 100% confident you'll love Dark Souls, but having played Demon's you're going to go into this one with a foundation of some similiarites. Demon's set the blueprints, but the other games are definitely still very different like how you made it sound with the King's Field series too.
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Post by paulofthewest on Nov 22, 2020 19:29:44 GMT -5
Just joshin' with you a bit. I was going to say, "Careful there Sarge!"
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Post by Ex on Nov 22, 2020 22:35:35 GMT -5
Just joshin' with you a bit. I know you were, but I still wanted to be clear about it. Just to give you guys an idea of the range of these games, purely in regards to the level design ethos alone: KF1 - You basically play enclosed stages that are separated into unique floors, by which you use an elevator to move between. KF2 - You are on a huge island, which is available to explore immediately as you see fit. As the player unlocks new pathways, sometimes shortcuts become available to earlier areas, making revisiting island sections easier. Basically recursive open exploration. Also the island has a lot of elevation changes, area to area. KF3 - You start off in a hub of sorts, which spreads out into many different regions, kind of in a radial spoke pattern. Basically the world expands from a hub in a branchlike fashion, giving KF3 a faux "open world" feel. However KF3 is much more "flat" than KF1 or KF2, there's not a lot of elevation changes. KF4 - A straight line from A to Z, except that line occasionally branches off into isolated areas to explore and loot. But each isolated area is attached to what equates to a linear hallway, gated by occasional keys. KF4 has the simplest exploration and least intimidating level design of the entire series, but it's still quite fun to traipse about in. Shadow Tower - Every "level" spokes off of a hub again, except this time the hub is a set of literal spiral stairs. The player traverses the spiral stairs up or down, manually, depending on where the player needs to go. This free movement is required, as sometimes key-gating items are in one area, and backtracking is required to further progress another area. Shadow Tower: Abyss - Another linear affair like KF4, except there aren't as many deviated branches, instead you're moving laterally from area to area. But each area is a complete level all unto itself, without the need for recursive backtracking. Also each level has a unique theme and either an organic or architectural layout. Eternal Ring - Honestly it's been so long since I beat this one, it's hard to remember. I think it had a series of islands that player traveled between though. Compare all that level variety with MM/MMX's unceasing "Pick a boss's stage, play left-to-right through the boss stage, beat the boss, do that over and over, until Wily's castle and the inevitable boss rush."
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Post by Sarge on Nov 22, 2020 23:20:42 GMT -5
Yeah, but it's the platforming challenges and stages that make those games interesting, not the overarching structure of the game itself. But then, y'all know I'm a bit of an platformer hound on NES, so take that for what you will.
Anyway, if you really want to talk about repetitive, well, let's talk about Legend. I remember reading about this one in both Nintendo Power and Game Player's Magazine, but never actually finished the game as far as I remember. Or if I did, it was heavily save-stated in the early days of ZSNES. Either way, it's a hack-and-slasher that clearly wants to be Golden Axe. Only problem is that the game is much slower than GA. You move like molasses, and your pokey default combo doesn't do you any favors. You can use it when you get enemies all on one side, but if not, you have to drop back to... uh, the drop kick. Which takes the form of a very TMNT arcade game diagonally-hitting attack that covers ground fast. You'll be using it a lot. A LOT.
Strangely, despite all the flaws, the game looks fantastic, and there's a sort of screen shake going on when you jump and land that really adds impact to everything you do. It really does make you feel like a hulking barbarian warrior. The magic system comes very close to Golden Axe, and does come in handy. And the bonus stages vary the after-level bonus stages of GA as well. Did I mention this game wants to be Golden Axe? Well, it does, and there's even a map you get to trace your progress that also mirrors that game.
I'm honestly not sure what to score this one - deeply flawed moveset and repetitive, but also somehow a game you can get into a groove into if you're willing to stick with it... for over an hour. Yep, it's a long one. I think I'm going to roll with... a 5.5/10. Strangely cathartic in some ways. I almost want to give it a 6/10, but definitely not higher than that.
EDIT: Wow, they remade this game for PSX. And it looks... special.
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Post by toei on Nov 23, 2020 6:24:31 GMT -5
Sarge I really can't stand Legend, but then you know how I feel about slow action games. And that one is slow. One of my theories as to why it's so slow is because it was made in Europe in the PAL era, so maybe they were just used to playing their games slower and didn't realize how slow theirs was? Either that or they just didn't know what they were doing. The same guys made Iron Commando, btw. I also tried the PSX remake/sequel. Again, awful. Finally, they made a game in that vein for the Dreamcast called Soul Fighter. I wouldn't say it's good, but it's not that bad either, despite bad cameras and so-so controls, but again, it's ridiculously long, and you only get a few lives, so it's absurdly tedious try to beat. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a single complete longplay on youtube, at first glance. (The 52 minutes video just stops at the end of a stage). So yeah, on reflection, these guys just didn't know what they were doing.
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Post by Xeogred on Nov 23, 2020 7:07:49 GMT -5
That's even painful just to watch. The walk speed and camera alone would end me. Looks like a terrible Nightmare Creatures - which I haven't played yet, but I remember Tsumuri selling me on it.
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Post by Sarge on Nov 23, 2020 23:16:59 GMT -5
Busted up Mega Man IV for GB. It's a lot harder than I remembered it being! Especially since I was playing legit - I wonder if I was using save states the last time I played. Probably. I think I was playing on PSP through Masterboy. This time, I was playing on the SNES through the SD2SNES's cool firmware update giving it Super Game Boy capability. I don't know how accurate it is, but it felt really solid to play. This and Mega Man V are definitely the best of the Game Boy games. I give this one an 8/10.
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