|
|
Post by Sarge on Oct 11, 2018 17:00:10 GMT -5
So basically it was more of a straight line through Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy rather than fealty to the console maker. Makes sense. Are there any solid sales charts that show how the N64 did as time went on? I would assume that the announcement that both Square and Enix moving from Nintendo to Sony dealt a huge blow to future system sales. I know it certainly factored into my buying habits; I wanted a PSX waaaaay before I wanted an N64, although I certainly wanted the latter for Zelda. But Zelda has always been a bit more popular here as well, right? |
|
|
|
Post by toei on Oct 12, 2018 1:38:15 GMT -5
I don't know how solid this is, though it seems backed by relatively solid data, but it clearly points to 1997 being the turning point in Japan, which fits with what I've read before. From their launches in late '94 through '96, the Saturn went toe-to-toe with the PSX. The N64 also did well in its first year. The numbers quoted for 1996 are 2,310,000 Saturn, 2,200,000 PSX, and 2,030,000 N64. I'm thinking the Saturn's slight edge is largely attributable to Virtua Fighter 2, the highest-selling Saturn game. This may be oversimplifying again, but without detailed software sales data per region, I have to attribute the shift in '97 to Final Fantasy 7. N64 sales dropped by half, Saturn by two-thirds, while the PSX either doubled or tripled them, depending on where you look. I have no idea when Dragon Quest VII was announced, but it only came out in 2000, long after things had been decided for that whole generation (it was an enormous hit - IGN says the highest-selling PSX title in Japan, as a matter of fact - with over 4 million copies sold of its original version*, but this didn't reflect on hardware sales in any obvious way, probably because everyone already had a PSX by then). *It was re-released in a "Ultimate Hits" edition, but who knows how much that sold. |
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Oct 12, 2018 10:46:25 GMT -5
According to Wikipedia, Dragon Quest VII was announced in '96 for the N64DD, but then was announced as moving over to the PlayStation early in '97. Between FFVII moving over, and Dragon Quest, got to figure that accounts for a good deal of the movement away from the other platforms. Timelines sure do seem to add up.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Oct 12, 2018 11:08:25 GMT -5
One could continue this theory into the PS2 era. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy mainline entries appeared on the PS2, but not the GameCube. The PS2 smoked the GameCube in sales...
|
|
|
|
Post by anayo on Oct 13, 2018 6:38:06 GMT -5
One could continue this theory into the PS2 era. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy mainline entries appeared on the PS2, but not the GameCube. The PS2 smoked the GameCube in sales... Maybe in Japan. In the US I got the impression the PS2 fared better because you could play games online and it doubled as a DVD player (at least compared to my Gamecube). |
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Oct 13, 2018 15:11:03 GMT -5
In the US I got the impression the PS2 fared better because you could play games online and it doubled as a DVD player (at least compared to my Gamecube). Initial sales of the PS2 were buoyed by the fact it could play DVDs, yes. I'm not so sure about the online aspect though (on the other hand, the original Xbox sales were noticeably boosted by the Xbox Live online platform once Halo released). I would wager that Final Fantasy X especially, and Final Fantasy XII to an extent, did move PS2 units appreciably in the USA. I don't have time to aggregate historical data to contrast unit sales against FF10/FF12 sales right now. But anecdotally, I did personally know some folks who bought a PS2 just so they could play FF10. Multiply that personal experience nationwide, and you've likely got a system mover with that release. Now Dragon Quest VIII? I doubt it moved very many PS2 units in the USA. I do know DQ8 sold higher units than expected, squarely on the premise that it came with a demo for the upcoming FF12. Sadly I knew some folks who never even bothered playing DQ8, as all they wanted was the FF12 demo disc. |
|
|
|
Post by toei on Oct 13, 2018 15:19:42 GMT -5
My copy of DQVIII didn't have a FF12 demo, I don't think, or I never played it, and I did, in fact, buy a PS2 just for that game. Of course you're right it wasn't a system mover on an appreciable scale, but it's likely that tons of games move a few consoles each for specific gamers, and that beyond big series, large-scale 3rd-party support is a major factor for a console's success (though 3rd parties tend to flock to a console that's doing well, so it's a bit of chicken-or-the-egg situation).
I disagree with the premise that some demo made DQ8 sell; it got a lot hype at a time when Japanese RPGs were still popular in the West, and it brought the series pretty damn close to mainstream, until DQ9 and DQ10 killed that momentum by being a DS game and some MMO, respectively.
-
I promise that my next post in this thread will be about NEC's consoles. I do have some respect / fondness for the original PC Engine especially.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Oct 13, 2018 15:37:29 GMT -5
My copy of DQVIII didn't have a FF12 demo, I don't think, or I never played it I'm not sure about the Canadian release, but check out the bottom right of the cover art for the USA release:  Lots of folks bought this game because of that. Now I'm not saying that SOME folks didn't buy DQ8 for DQ8. I personally bought a copy of DQ8 for the game itself, not the FF12 demo. If by some chance you bought a copy of the greatest hits version, it didn't include the FF12 demo: I want you to be right, I hope you are! I just remember during the release time of DQ8, I kept reading on forums where folks were saying they were buying DQ8 just to play the FFX12 demo, and they had no desire to play DQ8 at all. Which would explain why a month after its release, you could find tons of copies of DQ8 for $5 on eBay. For what it's worth, you're reading the words of a big fan of DQ8. I put 68 hours into it back in 2015; beat it, loved it, would bestow a 9/10 easily.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Oct 13, 2018 16:29:02 GMT -5
I know several people that bought DQVIII specifically for the demo. I don't know how much can be attributed to that, but it certainly didn't hurt sales at all, and likely pushed a few reluctant purchasers over the edge. My copy came with one, but I knew I was going to be a day-one purchaser, so I barely even touched the demo other than to be a bit nonplussed by the combat.
There were certainly different reasons that the PS2 dominated here. Less of a specific game, more of a continuation of Sony's dominance from the PSX generation. The Dreamcast failed to make a dent, and the Gamecube and XBOX got there a bit too late to capitalize on the slow start for Sony's beast. By then, third-parties were all over the system, so almost all the big titles were on the system. And yes, the DVD player very much factored in. It even helped convince me to snag one; DVD players were actually relatively pricey, and the idea of having one and a new gaming system was too much to ignore. I got a PS2 before either of the other two systems, despite all of them being out by that time.
The timeframe for my purchase was right after Suikoden III came out. That's the game that pushed me over the edge, and there were other RPGs by that point that were must-owns as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Xeogred on Oct 13, 2018 17:23:26 GMT -5
Don't forget backward compatibility too! I never owned a PSX myself, borrowed one from a friend for a long period, but it was the PS2 where I got to keep playing a bunch of PSX games. I think the DVD player thing was a huge selling point too. I don't know, the PS2 just had way more stopping power when it dropped. When the Dreamcast was out, my parents rented one for one of my birthday's which was cool... but outside of that they and a lot of other people didn't really care. But then the PS2 dropped, my dad's friend brought his over and my whole family and him played the goofy launch titles for hours that day, Track & Field, Madden 2001, etc. It was a huge deal, my dad even bought the PS2 as the "family" console, but naturally I used it 90% of the time. Was never allowed to have that one in my room though, I bought my own Slim down the road years later.
And yeah... most of my friends bought or played DQ8 just merely for the FF12 demo. To this day, Dragon Quest still doesn't seem to do much here in the West. I think Octopath Traveler might be selling more than Dragon Quest 11, which seems a bit insane to me. But Octopath is obviously tugging a lot at FF6/SNES nostalgia with its art style, so I'm sure that sold a lot of people.
Nintendo was already losing 3rd party support during the N64 run, so that probably didn't help the GC early on. Plus Nintendo's always been pretty weird with their own rules and decisions, mini discs, no DVD player, censorship, etc, perhaps a lot of developers were getting sick of their attitude and finding more success elsewhere then too?
|
|
