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Post by Xeogred on Jun 14, 2021 12:21:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I love how there's so much going on around that elevator. Even the armor in front of it, then how the elevator lifts up and opens to the right. Cool mechanics going on with that one elevator. That part and some sections of that map definitely seem more McGee than Romero. A few more maps for today... MAP17 - Solid JR style. Tricky/tough beginning, but then insanely easy. Tons of armor/health everywhere. Easy BFG secret near end. MAP18 - Excellent surreal castle, 6/13 fun secrets. Bit easy though. 10x better than The Citadel if they were going for that. MAP19 - Ugh! This one sucks. Too long. 19: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EM5DRwwc9Y - so much harder via PS. This vid makes it look like a joke. "Alfonzo" did 4, 19, 27, and 30. So I'm not sure what to expect with his next two later maps. But 19 is the weakest map to me so far. There was one secret that led to barrels, Pinkies, and an AV, with no reward that I could find. Whatever map style you want to call this one, consider some of my least favorite stuff. All these little pockets of enemies in windows or tucked away in corners that often take awhile to get to, running around enormous structures, and annoying damaging floors section throughout the whole middle of the thing, finite items spread out everywhere, egh. I gave it a few runs before I started to save a bunch.
This Tarnsman guy does a better Sandy Petersen impression and seems like he did a ton of work on this wad.
EDIT: Keep forgetting to mention this... the man himself Sandy Petersen has a YT channel now:
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Post by EasyHard on Jun 14, 2021 13:23:54 GMT -5
Yeah right on, Tarnsman's levels are great, especially as Sandy Petersen. It contributes a huge chunk of the megawad's overall "feel", which is fitting for Petersen's stand-ins. Reservoirs might be Tarnsman's least impressive map for me, but it is still fun. Compound also isn't anything incredible but it is just map 02. Map 17 is a very solid "Abandoned Mines" style level. There's not many maps that have a hot start like this, and I think it is done well. Too bad about map 19. Haha, maybe it will grow on you one day. It's not a favorite of mine, but I do legitimately enjoy it. I admit it usually gives me trouble (both difficulty and navigation) so I'm not sure if I've always liked it. RE: secret with Pinkies and barrels: Apparently Alfonzo was inspired by how Sandy Petersen would sometimes teleport the player to an area and be confronted with something immediately. He says "I may have even had E3M5 (Unholy Cathedral) in mind". You do get some valuable ammo at least. Map 18 (The Sanctuary) I think I disliked my first time, now it is one of my favorites. Feels almost like an Episode 3 inspired level with all the Imps, although it is probably more a combination of The Citadel and The Courtyard.
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Post by Xeogred on Jun 14, 2021 14:32:38 GMT -5
Map 18 (The Sanctuary) I think I disliked my first time, now it is one of my favorites. Feels almost like an Episode 3 inspired level with all the Imps, although it is probably more a combination of The Citadel and The Courtyard. I love The Courtyard and could see some of it there. I laughed being able to see some of those "Petersen enemy blocks" as you put it in this level especially too. Tons of Imps!
Honestly, yeah I can't say MAP19 was terrible or anything. I guess I'm just really in the mood for maps only running me about ~10 minutes lately, haha. On its own it would probably be more fun. I had planned to play up through MAP20 but yeah, MAP19 tacked on after a few other maps kind of took the wind out of me.
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Post by EasyHard on Jun 19, 2021 7:15:16 GMT -5
My older post on Classic-style Doom 1 ranking has been edited with 4 more short reviews for wads I had left to play: PhobosDeimos Anomaly, No Sleep for the Dead, CH Retro Episode, and Monument.
Monument was too annoying to finish. PhobosDeimos Anomaly was the most interesting one here, although it was also very easy. It has a certain breeziness appeal though, and it is stylistically interesting to play. The last two are a lot like E1 filtered through the author's sensibilities.
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Post by Xeogred on Jun 20, 2021 12:00:50 GMT -5
Finished up D2TWID today.
MAP04 - first death! MAP05 - damage floors, weird MAP06 - Plutonia chaingunners everywhere! Weird progression/design, not bad though. Doesn't feel like JR. Cool elevator I loved. MAP07 - Decent Dead Simple with Spider Mastermind MAP08 - Huge, difficulty spike, still no saves. Found 9/10 secrets that helped. Felt a bit like E2 as well. MAP09-10 - SP maps definitely feel like SP, yet like his Doom 1-2 style merged. Trolly SSG kind of tucked away in 10 haha... MAP11 - Impressive JR emulation. MAP12 - Similar to The Factory. Not quite city yet, but big and weird. MAP13 - Decent SP city map. MAP14 - Decent. Like vanilla MAP14, feels kind of Plutonia/TNT-ish. MAP15 - Decent SP city map. MAP16 - Surreal SP map. Weird red key gate/secrets. MAP17 - Solid JR style. Tricky/tough beginning, but then insanely easy. Tons of armor/health everywhere. Easy BFG secret near end. MAP18 - Excellent surreal castle, 6/13 fun secrets. Bit easy though. 10x better than The Citadel if they were going for that. MAP19 - Least favorite, huge and too long via PS. Probably decent on its own. MAP20 - Solid JR style, straightforward map and easy 100%. MAP21 - Solid, definitely similar to Nirvana. MAP22 - Tough ammo management, kind of annoying. MegaSphere was a must. MAP23 - Very easy. MAP24 - Hated it. MAP25 - Fun! Few tries. MAP26 - Fun JR, easy 4 secrets. Little harder near the end. Ran past Cyberdemon. MAP27 - Very cool, better Spirit World. Quite challenging. MAP28 - Ugh, annoying. Though these maps are more fun with Continuous runs. MAP29 - Very, VERY GOOD. MAP30 - Decent Icon of Sin. MAP31-32 - Joke easter eggs. MAP33 - Pretty cool but didn't finish it.
Definitely a few things to say here...
There is far more good than bad. I'd say the only maps I didn't really like are: MAP24 because of its asinine progression (can't deny it feels like a bad SP map though heh), and while I didn't enjoy a lot of MAP28, I realized I do kind of like such maps when I'm playing Continuous weapons and have more gear. Otherwise, these kind of giant/vertical maps with teleporters and switches that activate things across the map, get pretty trial and error. So I had issues with this one but thought, with more gear and save scumming, such maps aren't too bad. It's certainly well designed at what it wants to be. Hated those platforming moments for the plasma and ammo though, in one big room. MAP19 was one I knocked earlier and still a weaker one to me, but I also thought it was pretty decent when looking at it on its own.
Tarnsman is probably the MVP of this megawad for me, enjoyed most of those maps quite a bit and they really fit well. Seems they did a lot of volume here too. It was kind of funny to realize he is that schoolgirl anime avatar user I see a lot on Doomworld now. I'll have to look into their projects more...
I don't think esselfortium quite nailed the JR style in ways (way too many spiders for JR, haha), but that aside, I think most of their maps were pretty dang good. They have a consistent feel to them as well, just as JR does with his maps that nobody can seem to really replicate. I'd give that award to Pavera with MAP11 for feeling the most authentically Romero.
I wasn't super surprised to see how much I liked these two mappers, when I noticed that esselfortium was basically the lead on Back to Saturn X1-2, while Tarnsman provided a handful of maps there too. And those megawads are pretty tech base heavy, so yeah. Big fan of these two.
I like the American McGee maps of Doom 2, but there's not a ton to say about that style being emulated here. They're solid maps in both wads but probably won't be any top picks. They get your feet wet and kind of showcase things Doom 2 does differently than Doom 1.
The difficulty is definitely more consistent than Doom 2's, while also not going too far either which I find commendable because that can be a tricky balancing act. For better or worse, it's hard to imitate Doom 2's often surreal and nonsensical map to map progression, the uneven difficulty spikes and dips (even during my PS/UV run I still felt it), but D2TWID did an excellent job of feeling really authentic and like a true Lost Levels kind of expansion, or remixed main campaign.
Now the funny thing is that perhaps my biggest take away from this replay isn't exactly about D2TWID itself, but rather Doom 2. I mentioned recently that I think I've decided I like Doom 2 more than Doom 1 overall now. That said, Doom 1 was INSTANT love for me in ~1993 and on. Yet I can't seem to recall how I felt about Doom 2, or even remember when I was able to first go through it all on my own. I'd say it all blends in now, but while I can't picture where I was when I first play Plutonia and TNT, I think those left specific impressions on me, that I'm not sure Doom 2 ever did initially. I didn't think much of D2TWID when I first played it a few years ago, but now I'm walking away thinking it's in the B-A tier range for me. And this makes me ponder, Doom 2 has probably been a similar "grower" over the years. Maybe it didn't have much of an impression on me when I first played it and might be why I still see a lot of people (like here) walk away thinking it's weaker than Doom 1. I get that not everyone is into replaying stuff, but hey Doom 2 is just so weird and charming, I guess I have to say it's only gotten better and better for me all these years later. So, kind of funny D2TWID was that kind of experience and made me realize.. that's fairly accurate to Doom 2 as well, hah.
Am I still wanting more Doom?! Perhaps... I might consider Plutonia: Revisited Community Project next. I guess this is Final Doom's 25th anniversary, so it makes me think of more additional Plutonia/TNT stuff I haven't played yet.
I like the idea of revisiting Doom 64 yet again though. It's kind of easy on its hardest difficulty with the PC version/ports, since it may not have been completely designed around a mouse/keyboard. But enabling "Fast" monsters, doing PS, etc might make it more challenging.
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Post by EasyHard on Jun 20, 2021 16:21:15 GMT -5
I don't remember specifically how the progression path in Map 24 (Crushed Spirits) gets annoying, although I do remember it is weird. I like the comedic spirit behind this level though, so I remember it fondly. It's probably filling the "barrels o fun" role for this megawad. Crushed Spirits is much better though. I guess crushers make for better levels because they are a hazard that are ongoing (not one-shot) and can be activated in multiple ways. Barrels only do so much damage and block movement, there's not a lot you can do with them and there's little room for surprise. Perhaps Map 24 is also trying to fill "The Chasm" role? It only now occurs to me that this megawad doesn't have a true "Chasm replacement". I'm not sure how you'd do it without directly copying...I guess you'd have to come up with an original way to use uncommon level geometry, and execute it as an immediately readable gimmick. Map 27 (The Bloodwash) always makes me think "I'm about to screw up on this map". Probably Map 29 (The Mortal Coil) too. Map 28 (The Abyss) also has given me trouble. We probably had the same trial and error difficulties and I've learned that this map definitely requires paying a lot of attention to navigate. One thing that got me on more than one playthrough was that it isn't obvious that there are two giant towers with similar surroundings that you teleport to. The map author is Xaser who is an interesting mapper to watch out for. Like in this map, he often has a style that is very unique and might be described as "traversing through super structures". He has a doom 1 map called "Sharp Things" which reminds me of this map. I've been thinking about Doom 64 myself. I haven't played it yet, and I might do so this summer.
Edit: Regarding Doom 2, my experience was starting out with Doom 2 (not Doom 1). I played the first 6-11 maps a lot, probably before I was old enough to realistically achieve the needed patience and competence required by the game. I didn't play Ultimate Doom until late in the 90s (via the windows 95 port), after which I had already played Duke3D, Dark Forces, and Marathon 1+2. Moreover, I don't think I really formed a close connection to Doom 1 when I first played it, that would come later. There was definitely a point where I went back to the Doom games to really beat them in a concentrated number of sessions (perhaps beating them for the first time). I remember appreciating Doom 2 more during that time than Doom 1.
There have actually been a few times in my life where I would return to Doom 2 after a VERY long time of not thinking about it, and I would get an instant rush of good vibes whenever the next map loads and my brain goes "Hey, I remember this!". The opening screenshot of "Tricks 'n Traps", "Circle of Death", or the first room of "The Waste Tunnels" are good examples (but really it was every map to some degree).
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Post by Xeogred on Jun 20, 2021 17:38:09 GMT -5
Man, you're in for a treat with Doom 64. The new official PC version is quite good with an extra new episode that was great. The EX port is pretty good too if you go that route. Admittedly I never even played the N64 original, haha. Everyone jokes the brightness was too dark and made it impossible to navigate. Can't imagine how it feels on an N64 controller either... but yeah since it's the faux 3D with 2D sprites and all still, I think it holds up flawlessly. There's some new monsters, weapons, and the level design will probably surprise you with its own tricks and ideas.
Crushed Spirits was truly crushing my spirit with how nonsensical the design was. I too was on the look out for their own take of The Chasm... some of those tall big open sections in MAP28 and a few others felt like it at times, but yeah nothing quite like it. Either the team universally agreed to not bother with an unpopular map and or it's just impossible to make something in the same vein heh. Funny you point out Xaser, I played 4 maps of Syringe today, since it has Pavera and Tarnsman involved as well. This is a seriously good wad so far. The difficulty is up there but has still been doable for me on PS/UV.
MAP02: Hell Spoke by Pavera: this is the guy that I think does Romero extremely well. This map is like if Romero made an E4 styled level in Doom 2. www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnHVY0xx9J4MAP03: The Undergrowth by Tarnsman, Xaser and Pavera: pretty tough, been awhile since I've seen SO many Revenants. I really enjoyed it though: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziBQ7Et5nrwMAP04: Banana Export by Pavera: Better than MAP03. I don't think he was fully going for Romero this time, but it's there in spots and if the texturing were vanilla Doom 2 styled, it might fit in D2TWID: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbF1v0DHzSw
The last two maps there were big ~20 minute romps, but I enjoyed them a lot.
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Post by EasyHard on Jun 20, 2021 18:02:13 GMT -5
Heh, I've had browser tabs for "Syringe" and another wad called "Arrival" open for months. Guess I've been expecting final versions to be released, but maybe I should just play them.
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Post by Xeogred on Jun 20, 2021 19:18:51 GMT -5
...and another wad called "Arrival" open for months...
Okay I'm sold. Probably my next pick. The smaller map packs feel like a good choice right now.
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Post by Xeogred on Jun 21, 2021 9:34:16 GMT -5
Knocked out Syringe this morning, just had two more maps to go. Felt awesome getting through MAP05 in one go, but I think for anyone it was noticeably a little easier. It felt a awesomely Romero-ish again... oh yet another Pavera map! This guy is amazing. It was cool how each map kept changing up the aesthetic and location a fair bit too. MAP06 was a cool platforming style mountain map for the most part and did it really well (no annoying damage floors). It was neat how it kept changing up teleporters and locations as well as you progress further. Every map felt inventive and fresh.
Hot dang, it's awesome when a random game/wad turns out to be such a nice surprise, this is seriously one of the best wads I've played this year.
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