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Post by toei on Dec 14, 2018 23:22:58 GMT -5
So I've been immersing myself in Phantasy Star for the past few days for an article I'm writing. I'm a big fan of the classic series' universe and PS4 in general, and it's made me fiend for more in that vein. Initially I wanted to make this a thread about sci-fi JRPGs specifically, but I figure this might be too niche, so if you want to discuss other genres, that's fine too. Note that I'm not interested in games that just have a few small sci-fi elements, there's a ton of those. I'd say the minimum is like, Star Ocean (and even those are kind of borderline cases).
I'll start with them, though. These are the ones I know, offhand:
NES/Famicom -Hoshi o Miru Hito (1987) (J-only) -STED (1990) (Fan-Translated) -Lagrange Point (1991) (Fan-Translated)
Master System -Phantasy Star (obviously) (1987)
Genesis -Phantasy Star 2 (1989) -Phantasy Star 3 (1990) -Phantasy Star 4 (1993) -Blue Almanac / Star Odyssey (1991)
PC Engine CD -Cosmic Fantasy (1990) (J-only) -Cosmic Fantasy 2 (1991) -Cosmic Fantasy 3 (1992) (J-only) -Cosmic Fantasy 4 - Totsunyu Hen (1994) (J-only) -Cosmic Fantasy 4 - Gekito Hen (1994) (J-only) -Star Breaker (1994) (J-only)
SNES -Paladin's Quest aka Lennus (1992)* -Lennus 2 (1996) (Fan-Translated)* -Dragon Squadron Danzarb (1993) (Fan Translated) -Star Ocean (just barely, mostly the endgame) (1996) (Fan Translated)
Sega CD -Cosmic Fantasy Stories (1992) (Remake of CF1 + port of CF2) (J-only)
Game Gear -Phantasy Star Gaiden (1991) (Fan-Translated)
*I'm kind of on the fence as to whether they count. I guess they're about space aliens, so they do, even if I don't remember technology being that advanced in them.
I'm interested in the 32-bit & 128-bit eras too, will look at those later. I'm sure there has to be something missing in there. Seems like there are no real sci-fi ARPGs, at least that I can think of right now, nor really SRPGs, except for Super Robot Wars and other mecha-based stuff (Front Mission seems pretty close to modern times to me, mechas aside, so I don't really think of it as sci-fi). Out of the untranslated ones, both chapters of Cosmic Fantasy IV look really cool. CF2 had some serious flaws, but it had qualities as well (mostly the story), and by 1994 RPGs had really improved as a whole. Star Breaker looks really cool, too (it's by the same guys that made the Startling Odyssey games and Miraculum on PCE CD & PC-FX, RayForce).
Out of those that are translated, I love Phantasy Star IV, like Paladin's Quest and Star Ocean a lot, and have a complicated relationship with the other PS games (but not Gaiden - it's just horrible.) Danzarb was tedious and frustrating to actually play, but it had a really good story, with a very bold ending. Lennus 2 was decent, and obviously much more advanced visually, but I remember being disappointed by it. It was so damn easy, and the story didn't match the amazing graphics.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 14:47:01 GMT -5
A few sci-fi RPGs off the top of my head:
Albion (PC) Anachronox (PC) Cyber Knight 1-2 (SNES) DOOM RPG (Mobile) Harbinger (PC) Hybrid Heaven (N64) Xenogears (PS1) Rogue Galaxy (PS2) System Shock 1-2 (PC) Zone of the Enders: The Fist of Mars (GBA) Sigma Star Saga (GBA) Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga 1-2 (PS2)* Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 1-2 (PC, Xbox) Star Wolves series (PC)
Maybe the .hack series also counts, but it's arguable. I'll also mention Infinite Space since it'll become retro compliant very soon.
*Other SMT titles like Soul Hackers also have strong sci-fi elements.
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Post by bonesnapdeez on Dec 15, 2018 14:57:43 GMT -5
The Cosmic Solider games are easy to forget about, despite the fact that one of them somehow had a Western release.
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Post by Ex on Dec 15, 2018 15:29:26 GMT -5
I wanted to make this a thread about sci-fi JRPGs specifically I'm going to stick with the RPG theme. Adding other genres is just too overwhelming for me concerning a single thread. Also: Ai Senshi Nicol Last Armageddon Metal Max Shadow BrainYeah I'm coming up blank here on Master System. Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday (WRPG) Rent A HeroStarFlight (WRPG) I can't think of anything else that's in English, or has an English fan translation. Cyber KnightCyber Knight IIFront Mission: Gun HazardMetal Max ReturnsRobotrekShadowrun (WRPG) Shin Megami TenseiShin Megami Tensei if...Shin Megami Tensei IISolid Runner (No fan trans yet.) Shin Seikoku: La WaresIllusion City: Genei Toshi (No fan trans yet.) Shadowrun (No fan trans yet.) Shin Megami Tensei (No fan trans yet.) I don't know of anything else for GG. There is an English fan translated MT game, but it's of the Last Bible flavor and skews fantasy. There's quite a bit on PS1 and PS2 alone. I'll have to come back later when I have more time to post some titles for those eras. -
Edit: I'm glad you agree that Phantasy Star IV is great. It is great, and it has aged better than PS2 (too grindy) and PS3 (too easy). I still think PS1 is a stone cold classic too. The only issue with PS1 is it's very grindy in the beginning, but the difficulty is front loaded. Most of the experience is tight after that.
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Post by toei on Dec 15, 2018 15:49:57 GMT -5
The single most revealing this I've read about PS2 is this: "(Kotaro) Hayashida: Another issue was related to the dungeons, which were created by a new employee. Because he was new, he put a ton of effort into the maps and kind of overdid it… the game became more about the complex dungeons than anything else. I think you really see that on the Dezolis dungeons. They were really well done, and when Chieko Aoki saw them she didn’t want all the new employee’s work to be for naught, so we ended up using those maps… albeit with some mixed feelings. They contributed to the latter half of the game being unbalanced." I'd like the game a ton more if the dungeons were more reasonable. It has a lot of charm, made some big strides in terms of story (you have to remember that this game was released in 1989, and competed with the like of Final Fantasy 2 and Dragon Quest 3), has some great world-building, great music and graphics, and is generally the closest to PS4 in spirit... but damn, those dungeons. When I played through it, I would do them in two parts each; figure them out, use an Escapipe, and come back to finish them. For the most part, you didn't actually have to do too much grinding if you did it that way. I still caved in an used a map for Spaceship Noah because it's so damn complex for nothing, with dozens of staircases leading back and forth between the two levels. My biggest problem with PS3 now, other than the undeveloped script which was my biggest problem initially, is just how much backtracking it has you doing. You're constantly going back and forth through those damn tunnels between "worlds", over and over, and it's a pain. And of course the slow walking speed. I would have liked more proper boss fights, too, but PS1 & 2 didn't have that many, either (it still wasn't the norm to have a boss in every dungeon at the time). PS4 is the first truly great 16-bit RPG - it came out in late '93, while all the SNES classics came out in '94-'95. Looking at the list you pointed out, I guess my definition of sci-fi is more restrictive, and I probably need a better term, because I'm not thinking of games like Megami Tensei (which is more into demonic and religious stuff), Front Mission (military setting + mechas), or Metal Max (post-apocalyptic, technological regression, etc. - though MM Returns is great). Cyber Knight counts, but it's dreck, with horribly slow and frequent battles. Illusion City seems great, and I'd definitely play Shadowrun SEGA CD, too. I like both 16-bit games, but I'm among the few to prefer to Genesis game. More gritty, more freedom, I enjoy doing runs, and the Matrix is a lot more developed. It's a bit rougher, though, and it's really easy to get killed when you're starting out. I guess I'm most interested in JRPGs that feature travel between multiple planets, laser guns and stuff of that nature, but I don't know enough about sci-fi literature to know what that's called. Science-Fantasy? Space Opera? The Star Cruiser games definitely count, now that I think about it. bonesnapdeez Cosmic Soldier seem to fit, too. I remember reading about it on the HG101 blog, back when they had one. I like the art style.
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Post by Ex on Dec 15, 2018 16:08:05 GMT -5
toei You'll have to forgive my dusty memories of PS2 and PS3. I beat both of them around the time they debuted in the USA.* So it was very long ago when I played through those. I beat most of PS2 while I was stuck in the hospital back (after a car accident), and I beat PS3 over a single weekend. I haven't played those games much since then. I do remember that PS2 had really big dungeons (which I liked as a kid). I barely remember anything about PS3, other than you can have kids (I liked that), and that town buildings were scaled properly to your sprite size. I also remember PS3 was very easy. Speaking of difficulty, I often see people saying that PS1 and PS2 are super hard. I don't remember them being super hard. I beat those games as a kid, with zero outside help. I didn't even have an instruction manual for either game, just the carts. I think it's just that I had so much free time, and unlimited access to my video games, that I was able to beat them as a kid. I remember PS1 very well because it was my first JRPG. And I've replayed large portions of it a few times. I remember PS4 well, because it wasn't that long ago when I beat it. I was actually an adult when I beat PS4. *I beat PS1 in 1989. I beat PS2 in 1990. I beat PS3 in 1991. I didn't beat PS4 until 1999 though. I guess I'm most interested in JRPGs that feature travel between multiple planets, laser guns and stuff of that nature
Despite being WRPGs, the Mass Effect series is as good as that concept gets. (The first Mass Effect is HRG compliant now, by the way.)
You might enjoy Infinite Space on DS. It's a tactical starship strategy combined with visual novel hybrid. Fairly unique and very Japanese (has an official English release though).
You might also enjoy Rogue Galaxy on PS2. I've owned a copy for years upon many years, still haven't split the plastic seal open yet. I think it's time next year that I finally do so.
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Post by toei on Dec 15, 2018 16:17:05 GMT -5
Yeah, Rogue Galaxy is on my "one day" list since forever. Infinite Space caught my interest at the time but it seemed kind of weird in a way that I didn't find too attractive. I would have been all over it if it'd had walking around and stuff. I'd completely missed the Ai Senshi Nicol translation until now, by the way. It doesn't seem to be on romhacking.net at all. I'll check it out.
Re: Phantasy Star 3, you probably found it too easy because you were used to do a lot of level grinding. It actually cuts down on that aspect a fair deal, which is nice, and the dungeons are smaller. That and the fact that the few bosses are a complete joke. One thing I like about PS4 is that the bosses can actually be pretty tough - you have to use buffers and be on your toes.
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Post by Ex on Dec 17, 2018 10:23:15 GMT -5
That and the fact that the few bosses are a complete joke. IIRC the final boss of PS3 pops out of a treasure chest. I remember thinking that was lame.
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