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Post by Moulinoski on Jan 5, 2023 8:10:31 GMT -5
I looked it up, and apparently he starts extremely low, but actually ends up one of the highest of the series when all is said and done. Wild! I did not know that part. That’s awesome and actually adds to the story integration since by the end of it, the protagonist essentially makes his own good luck. Probably feels like the luckiest person alive, in fact, with what he manages to have at that point. Edit: I don’t know where else to put this. I’ve been watching Dragon Quest: Legend of the Hero Abel as I exercise and I’m by around episode 31~32 (I don’t always pay attention to the title card and even then, it’s only “level #”). It’s interesting to me to see elements of Dragon Quest III in it but then have elements of Dragon Quest IV mentioned as well. It feels like an adaptation of a preproduction Dragon Quest III where we saw glimpses of what it may have been. It almost feels like like Dragon Quest IV may have even spun out of unused ideas from Dragon Quest III’s development. That’s all just my speculation based on what I’m seeing in this show. It’s really interesting to see the differences and similarities to DQ III and DQ IV. It is much closer to DQ III but then you hear them talk about Estark (as a place instead of a monster) and there are monsters that I feel weren’t in the games yet but maybe I’m just forgetting which ones existed in DQ II. Did DQ II have dragon rider enemies?
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Post by Xeogred on Jan 5, 2023 19:25:55 GMT -5
Edit: I don’t know where else to put this. I’ve been watching Dragon Quest: Legend of the Hero Abel as I exercise and I’m by around episode 31~32 (I don’t always pay attention to the title card and even then, it’s only “level #”). It’s interesting to me to see elements of Dragon Quest III in it but then have elements of Dragon Quest IV mentioned as well. It feels like an adaptation of a preproduction Dragon Quest III where we saw glimpses of what it may have been. It almost feels like like Dragon Quest IV may have even spun out of unused ideas from Dragon Quest III’s development. That’s all just my speculation based on what I’m seeing in this show. It’s really interesting to see the differences and similarities to DQ III and DQ IV. It is much closer to DQ III but then you hear them talk about Estark (as a place instead of a monster) and there are monsters that I feel weren’t in the games yet but maybe I’m just forgetting which ones existed in DQ II. Did DQ II have dragon rider enemies? Oh haha, heck yeah. I watched Abel in full myself in 2020 I believe. I really enjoyed it, pretty strange and fascinating series. I know what you mean about it mixing up some stuff of DQ3 and DQ4. DQ2 specifics, I can't really recall. I think anything else out of the ordinary was maybe just Toriyama and the staff taking some liberties on new ideas or monster designs. It was interesting watching that as the new Dragon Quest Dai was airing. Abel has a few prototype like characters and ides that are better in Dai. I've seen the new Dai to completion now and loved it. Even having played most of the games by now, it had a few cool twists and turns that surprised me in the long run. I'd almost compare Dai more to something like Saint Seiya though. It's more of a pure battle shounen, not a lot of "adventure" and exploring around cool creative lands. I think Abel did that better. But yeah characters wise, Dai was superior. I plan to check out the original anime sometime soon perhaps, but it only covers like 30% of the story. It's cool the new anime got to adapt the entire thing. It's a beefy 100 episodes. I thought the Abel OST was hilariously weird... it'd be no surprise that Sugiyama didn't let them license any of the game music. But dang if the music isn't all over the place and doesn't always fit, yet I wouldn't change a thing. Some great and goofy tracks in there. Heck yes lol
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Post by Moulinoski on Jan 5, 2023 20:27:37 GMT -5
Edit: I don’t know where else to put this. I’ve been watching Dragon Quest: Legend of the Hero Abel as I exercise and I’m by around episode 31~32 (I don’t always pay attention to the title card and even then, it’s only “level #”). It’s interesting to me to see elements of Dragon Quest III in it but then have elements of Dragon Quest IV mentioned as well. It feels like an adaptation of a preproduction Dragon Quest III where we saw glimpses of what it may have been. It almost feels like like Dragon Quest IV may have even spun out of unused ideas from Dragon Quest III’s development. That’s all just my speculation based on what I’m seeing in this show. It’s really interesting to see the differences and similarities to DQ III and DQ IV. It is much closer to DQ III but then you hear them talk about Estark (as a place instead of a monster) and there are monsters that I feel weren’t in the games yet but maybe I’m just forgetting which ones existed in DQ II. Did DQ II have dragon rider enemies? Oh haha, heck yeah. I watched Abel in full myself in 2020 I believe. I really enjoyed it, pretty strange and fascinating series. I know what you mean about it mixing up some stuff of DQ3 and DQ4. DQ2 specifics, I can't really recall. I think anything else out of the ordinary was maybe just Toriyama and the staff taking some liberties on new ideas or monster designs. It was interesting watching that as the new Dragon Quest Dai was airing. Abel has a few prototype like characters and ides that are better in Dai. I've seen the new Dai to completion now and loved it. Even having played most of the games by now, it had a few cool twists and turns that surprised me in the long run. I'd almost compare Dai more to something like Saint Seiya though. It's more of a pure battle shounen, not a lot of "adventure" and exploring around cool creative lands. I think Abel did that better. But yeah characters wise, Dai was superior. I plan to check out the original anime sometime soon perhaps, but it only covers like 30% of the story. It's cool the new anime got to adapt the entire thing. It's a beefy 100 episodes. I thought the Abel OST was hilariously weird... it'd be no surprise that Sugiyama didn't let them license any of the game music. But dang if the music isn't all over the place and doesn't always fit, yet I wouldn't change a thing. Some great and goofy tracks in there. Heck yes lol
Abel totally uses Dragon Quest music, though! It seems remixed though. I agree about Abel being good about giving one the feeling of adventure and exploration. There are even MacGuffins the cast has to collect! It’s a lot of fun. I hope it gets a remake someday (and yet, maybe it really doesn’t need one). I only finished reading Dai once and loved it but it’s certainly more of a battle story, especially in around middle. I agree with the Saint Seiya comparison. There’s a part towards the end when part of the cast goes down a creepy dungeon which felt more like Dragon Quest. Still, I can’t help but love it and the optimism that Dai generally demonstrates. I’m still by around episode 30 of the remake. The original cartoon is slower. Where the remake might take a single episode to get through some plot point, the original may take two. Oh, interestingly, towards the latter half of the story, DQ IV monsters show up as part of the villains’ upgraded monsters. Really makes it seem as though Dai was created between DQ III and DQ IV. I think the remake incorporates monsters from later games.
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Post by Xeogred on Jan 5, 2023 21:06:16 GMT -5
Abel totally uses Dragon Quest music, though! It seems remixed though. I agree about Abel being good about giving one the feeling of adventure and exploration. There are even MacGuffins the cast has to collect! It’s a lot of fun. I hope it gets a remake someday (and yet, maybe it really doesn’t need one). I only finished reading Dai once and loved it but it’s certainly more of a battle story, especially in around middle. I agree with the Saint Seiya comparison. There’s a part towards the end when part of the cast goes down a creepy dungeon which felt more like Dragon Quest. Still, I can’t help but love it and the optimism that Dai generally demonstrates. I’m still by around episode 30 of the remake. The original cartoon is slower. Where the remake might take a single episode to get through some plot point, the original may take two. Oh, interestingly, towards the latter half of the story, DQ IV monsters show up as part of the villains’ upgraded monsters. Really makes it seem as though Dai was created between DQ III and DQ IV. I think the remake incorporates monsters from later games. Yeah, just weird low grade remixes. It was cool to hear a few familiar tunes though.
I know the dungeon you're talking about in Dai haha. Think it was 100 floors deep supposedly. All the gals went down there at one point. You hear about some of their trials but yeah, it kind of glosses over it. I felt like Popp was the better main character in the long run, started off as such a dork but he goes through so much character development. Nothing wrong with Dai though, but he's kind of a typical shounen boy hero. Hyunckel was awesome too (and felt like an actual Saint Seiya character haha).
If you've read the manga and know the full story already... What impressed me was the twist with Vearn having two bodies and becoming one in the end. Having played so many of the games now, I knew that Hadlar was probably just one of the first or biggest stepping stones to the big bad. But then Dai surprised me beyond that, it was chalk full of excellent villains across the board. Vearn himself is freaking awesome, amazing voice in this new show. A lot of other shounens could only dream of having some of these cool villains haha. I've been feeling shounen fatigue at this point in my anime watching over the decades, but I was so happily pleased by how damn good and fun Dai was. It focuses on a small group of characters, keeps it simple, and was amazing for it.
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Post by Moulinoski on Jan 6, 2023 8:30:54 GMT -5
Abel totally uses Dragon Quest music, though! It seems remixed though. I agree about Abel being good about giving one the feeling of adventure and exploration. There are even MacGuffins the cast has to collect! It’s a lot of fun. I hope it gets a remake someday (and yet, maybe it really doesn’t need one). I only finished reading Dai once and loved it but it’s certainly more of a battle story, especially in around middle. I agree with the Saint Seiya comparison. There’s a part towards the end when part of the cast goes down a creepy dungeon which felt more like Dragon Quest. Still, I can’t help but love it and the optimism that Dai generally demonstrates. I’m still by around episode 30 of the remake. The original cartoon is slower. Where the remake might take a single episode to get through some plot point, the original may take two. Oh, interestingly, towards the latter half of the story, DQ IV monsters show up as part of the villains’ upgraded monsters. Really makes it seem as though Dai was created between DQ III and DQ IV. I think the remake incorporates monsters from later games. Yeah, just weird low grade remixes. It was cool to hear a few familiar tunes though.
I know the dungeon you're talking about in Dai haha. Think it was 100 floors deep supposedly. All the gals went down there at one point. You hear about some of their trials but yeah, it kind of glosses over it. I felt like Popp was the better main character in the long run, started off as such a dork but he goes through so much character development. Nothing wrong with Dai though, but he's kind of a typical shounen boy hero. Hyunckel was awesome too (and felt like an actual Saint Seiya character haha).
If you've read the manga and know the full story already... What impressed me was the twist with Vearn having two bodies and becoming one in the end. Having played so many of the games now, I knew that Hadlar was probably just one of the first or biggest stepping stones to the big bad. But then Dai surprised me beyond that, it was chalk full of excellent villains across the board. Vearn himself is freaking awesome, amazing voice in this new show. A lot of other shounens could only dream of having some of these cool villains haha. I've been feeling shounen fatigue at this point in my anime watching over the decades, but I was so happily pleased by how damn good and fun Dai was. It focuses on a small group of characters, keeps it simple, and was amazing for it. Consider that Dai was first created when Dragon Ball, Saint Seiya, and Fost of the North Star were the newest things around. It’s still a very classic style Shonen story in a Dragon Quest setting. Unfortunately, I don’t remember much about the end parts. I remember Hadler becomes more and more honorable and one of the chess knights is honorable too. I remember that Dai becomes a sort of monster and something vague about the sadness of having had to transform to defeat the villain. Oh, and royal boobs exposed… dunno why I remember that, maybe because there was no nudity up until that point. I agree to your point about Popp but he needs a character like Dai to be around or there’s nothing to help him change. Regardless of that, he indeed gets a better and more meaty character arc than Dai or any other character does although as I think back on the other characters, they also change over the course the story albeit less so than Popp. Popp really does go through a 180 over the course of the story!
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Post by toei on Jan 9, 2023 0:53:35 GMT -5
The original Dai manga started in 1989, so DQIII was the main inspiration, but it ran for several years. In the days of paper manga, a typical weekly shonen was published at the rate of one 18-20 pages chapter a week, with 9 or 10 of those making up a tankobon volume. Mangaupdates says it had 349 chapters. 349 divided by 52 = 6.7, so it ended in 1995 or 1996, around the time DQVI came out. That would explain why monsters from later games end up appearing in it. The Abel anime also debuted in 1989. The first two games were popular, but DQIII is the one that turned the series into this big cultural phenomenon in Japan, so that's when Enix et al must have decided to capitalize on that popularity through other media. Rather than wait years for the manga to be far along enough to make it into an anime, they launched a distinct series for each media, and having them be only loosely based on the games rather than direct adaptations ensured they could be different enough not to be confused with each other or cannibalize each other's popularity. This is all guesswork, but I believe the series ended up as they are because it made the most sense businesswise. Interestingly, in this case, I would say this approach was also the best creatively. It's funny that Toriyama, the mangaka who worked for Weekly Shonen Jump, was involved with the anime, but not the manga published in Weekly Shonen Jump. It's likely just a question of time; he was working full time on Dragon Ball already and couldn't have handled both, while all he had to do for the anime was design some characters. Also, the Japanese title is Dai no Daibouken... am I right in thinking that's a punny/jokey title? It would translate into something like "Big's Big Adventure" or "Great's Great Adventure", unless Dai is a real name, in which case it would acquire a double meaning.
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Post by Moulinoski on Jan 10, 2023 8:29:20 GMT -5
The original Dai manga started in 1989, so DQIII was the main inspiration, but it ran for several years. In the days of paper manga, a typical weekly shonen was published at the rate of one 18-20 pages chapter a week, with 9 or 10 of those making up a tankobon volume. Mangaupdates says it had 349 chapters. 349 divided by 52 = 6.7, so it ended in 1995 or 1996, around the time DQVI came out. That would explain why monsters from later games end up appearing in it. The Abel anime also debuted in 1989. The first two games were popular, but DQIII is the one that turned the series into this big cultural phenomenon in Japan, so that's when Enix et al must have decided to capitalize on that popularity through other media. Rather than wait years for the manga to be far along enough to make it into an anime, they launched a distinct series for each media, and having them be only loosely based on the games rather than direct adaptations ensured they could be different enough not to be confused with each other or cannibalize each other's popularity. This is all guesswork, but I believe the series ended up as they are because it made the most sense businesswise. Interestingly, in this case, I would say this approach was also the best creatively. It's funny that Toriyama, the mangaka who worked for Weekly Shonen Jump, was involved with the anime, but not the manga published in Weekly Shonen Jump. It's likely just a question of time; he was working full time on Dragon Ball already and couldn't have handled both, while all he had to do for the anime was design some characters. Also, the Japanese title is Dai no Daibouken... am I right in thinking that's a punny/jokey title? It would translate into something like "Big's Big Adventure" or "Great's Great Adventure", unless Dai is a real name, in which case it would acquire a double meaning. Yeah, in 89 I think Toriyama was still neck deep in Dragon Ball so it makes sense for him to just provide designs for the show but not any comics. I recall The Adventure of Dai originally being conceived as a two part special on Jump magazine but it was so popular that it got more chapters and then became a full fledged thing. That’s why the beginning is so different in tone from the rest. Dai’s name is written in katakana, ダイ, but I have always imagined it being a play on words with him being a small kid and his “big” adventure which at the time was just some “heroes” arriving at his island and then him having to set out to rescue his friends. Once the series got picked up for serialization it earned the name in earnest, haha. Oh yeah, I reached the episode where Adonis is introduced in the hero Abel. It’s Trunks! Or Terry! Who knows! Definitely shows that Toriyama can only draw so many faces, hah. I have a feeling he’s that one general that kept getting beat by Abel and mocked by Muar in disguise.
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Post by Xeogred on Jan 10, 2023 9:36:55 GMT -5
Adonis to me felt very much like the prototype Hyunckel, heh.
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Post by Moulinoski on Jan 10, 2023 10:45:10 GMT -5
Adonis to me felt very much like the prototype Hyunckel, heh. That kind of character is just popular overall, really. The evil character turns good. It happens in Saint Seiya / Knights of the Zodiac, Dragon Ball (especially the Piccolo - Saiyan arcs), it happens in Zyuranger… I’m trying to think of other things I’ve seen it in. Although I don’t know much about Adonis yet. For all I know, he’s just mysterious for the sake of being mysterious, but I still feel like he’s secretly working for Baramos.
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Post by toei on Jan 10, 2023 11:14:15 GMT -5
Yeah, but Hyunckel would also look just like Trunks if Toriyama drew him. Young silver-haired swordsman.
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