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Post by Ex on Jun 10, 2021 15:08:21 GMT -5
"puzzling" here takes the form of navigation, where pretty much everything is a maze. Overworld, dungeons, the works Yes that's the aspect that put me off the game. I'm not so sure about this one. The film released May 20, 1988. The game released in the USA first, in December 1989. So the game released a good year and a half after the film released. Willow the NES game* doesn't seem without merit, screenshots make it look interesting. The maze stuff and apparently required grinding doesn't sound great though. I'll be interested in your final thoughts once you have finished this game via the fresh experience. *There's an arcade game also by Capcom that's completely different. It's an action-plaformer. - I haven't done any video gaming since monday this week, but I plan to get back into Crystalis and Beyond Oasis tonight. Hopefully I can get back into the groove with Crystalis after it peeved me so hard earlier.
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Post by Sarge on Jun 10, 2021 15:17:34 GMT -5
Huh, I didn't look up the dates, so that's right out the window. Interesting that it took them that long to get out. Wonder if they just decided to run out and get a license to try to up visibility? Willow did middling numbers in theaters, so I dunno. I've been holding off commenting on my Crystalis experience, but as you've probably guessed, I have finished it off. EDIT: Guess I should check ol' Wikipedia. Can't read the original article from Gamest, but the summary: Mystery solved, I guess!
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Post by Ex on Jun 11, 2021 0:28:25 GMT -5
I put half an hour into Crystalis tonight. Got passed the spooky forest and its insect boss, then made it deep into the snowy mountains. I got aggravated once again in the snowy mountains, because that area is so large and confusing, due to everything looking the same (including the interior ice caves). I got tired of going in circles trying to figure out how to reach the wooden bridge, and just put the game away. Also, it's annoying to have to bring up a menu to switch your sword type, to handle the different enemies which are vulnerable/invulnerable depending on sword type. For a game that wants you to do this as often, the player should have been able to hit A+B to switch sword types incrementally.
I'm still not in love with Crystalis, and at this point don't quite understand the massive praise this game gets. But to not be too hasty, I'll put one more solid session into it before making up my mind. To me though, it's obvious the person who designed Crystalis was not well versed in RPG design. That would be Kazuto Kohno, who apparently only directed one game in this genre. Afterwards I put an hour into Beyond Oasis and continued to have a good time. Got passed the ship section, then a cave dungeon area, then another enemy fortress, now saved at the beginning of a desert area. The difficulty has gotten a bit more saucy, which is appreciated. THIS game is legit good thus far. Honestly I'm surprised I haven't seen more praise for it on retro forums over the years.
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Post by toei on Jun 11, 2021 1:31:48 GMT -5
I can't remember if I posted this yesterday or not, but Beyond Oasis is a legit Genesis classic. If it were on the SNES, you'd hear more praise, I'm sure. I also agree that Crystalis is vastly overrated. It's very much a standard NES ARPG, basic and primitive. I also liked Legend of Oasis, myself. And like Sarge said, although Defender or Oasis has nothing to do with these games, and the title thing is just a coincidence caused by localized titles (Beyond and Legend of Oasis were Story of Thor and Legend of Thor in Japan, while Defender was called Shaddam Crusader), it's way better than the other Game Gear RPGs.
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Post by Ex on Jun 11, 2021 10:24:07 GMT -5
Beyond Oasis is a legit Genesis classic. From what I've played so far, I'm inclined to agree. My only real complaint so far is the OST is crap, other than that, it's exceeded my expectations considerably.
From what I've played of Crystalis so far, I'm inclined to agree. The positive points I'd put towards Crystalis after putting three hours in, are that its graphics are pretty good, and its OST is above average (though not always).
That said, its combat system has multiple issues and is rather bad, which is a cardinal sin for an action-RPG. Hit detection is wonky for both the player and enemies. The progression triggers can be unintuitive. The game often has annoying area designs that are maze-like in ways that aren't fun to me. Your character moves so fast that it's easy to run into enemies/projectiles right as the camera pans to reveal them, a problem I don't normally have with games of this genre. Another thing is the plot is who even knows? The instruction manual, official SNK hint guide, and the game itself all explain the plot differently from one another. The plot was even changed once again for the GBC version, so not even the NES or GBC versions agree with each other. For an RPG, the plot matters, so this aspect bugs me. As far as localized action-RPGs on the NES go, Faxanadu, Zelda, and Zelda II all preceded Crystalis and are better games in the genre. Graphically Willow exceeds Crystalis, and Willow released a year before Crystalis.
Yeah I don't get the fervor for this one. I'm not trying to beat Crystalis down, just explaining why I haven't been enthralled by it. I don't think it's an awful game or anything that hyperbolic, I'd give it a 7/10 at this point. But I do believe Crystalis is considerably overrated. I will give the game one more session though, to see if it finally clicks for me. Maybe I'll have a change of mind yet. Or not.
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Post by Sarge on Jun 11, 2021 12:35:58 GMT -5
Well, y'all are just wrong! Crystalis is a great game, and y'all are big poopie heads for not liking it! (I'm stealing the idea of using Courier New as sarcasm/not serious from another site.) In all seriousness, I think a lot of the criticisms are fair. We've shown over the years that there are certain flaws that bother us more than others - I'm pretty accepting of the issues with Crystalis. Honestly, it exhibits some of the same flaws as one of its major influences, Ys. And I'm on record as not caring much for Ys Book I & II. As for the hit detection, I made mention of that earlier, and it's why I stick with the charged combat and rarely use melee. I don't think it's as much that it's "bad" as that aforementioned squirrelly handling. You move with such speed that it would work better (coupled with those enemies that tend to pop right in on you due to the reduced visibility straight ahead) in some ways by having Ys's bump combat. If I had to give it a rating, I'd say it's an 8.5/10. Yeah, I know that seems remarkably high. There's a pretty heavy nostalgia element that plays in here that I'm not entirely sure I can separate. Probably similar to your love of Phantasy Star compared to mine, Ex . I suspect that for all of us, there are games that are "good", but we grew up with them, and as such, hold an esteemed place in our minds that's hard to shake. I am glad, however, that Beyond Oasis is working for you, Ex , and that toei is a big fan. I wish more people would talk about it! The Genesis gets the short end of the RPG stick - just because it has less RPGs than the SNES doesn't mean it doesn't have some great ones, and in my mind Beyond Oasis is one of the best.
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Post by Ex on Jun 11, 2021 13:08:26 GMT -5
it exhibits some of the same flaws as one of its major influences, YsThe key difference there, is that Adol moves quickly yes, but it's okay if he runs into enemies, because that's how Adol actually attacks them. But the Crystalis protagonist is damaged upon running into an enemy. So basically this game tried to mix Ys movement speed with (a loose interpretation of) Zelda attacks, and ended up with the worst of both worlds. The problem I have with the charged combat shots (against regular mob enemies) is that it's not an ideal combat mechanic. You have to wait for the attack meter to fill, independently for each charge tier (up to three) before using it. So that aspect extrapolated over time becomes quite tiresome. And with charge shot attacks, you have to hit even dweeb enemies at least twice to kill them, sometimes three of four times. So just for one enemy, you have to run around it and avoid it, while charging up the attack, aim and shoot the enemy, then do that a few more times per encounter. Over and over constantly against dozens and dozens of enemies in any particular area. It's a very tedious, time consuming way to kill grunt enemies. In no way is that combat system better than simply walking up to an enemy, stabbing and killing it, then walking forward to the next enemy. But Crystalis even makes simply stabbing an enemy a risky affair thanks to crappy hit detection, and the fact that your sword strike is so brief it's easy to miss regardless. And even directly stabbing an enemy often takes 3 or 5 hits to kill it. Then there's the whole elemental invulnerability aspect wherein you have to switch swords to damage different enemies (sometimes in the same room), which involves having to go into an equipment menu to swap swords. Doing so pauses the real time combat, which works against the aesthetic of action-RPG. Yeesh. As negative as I'm being right now, keep in mind I'm not trying to say "NO YOU'RE WRONG" for liking Cystalis' combat system. I'm just explaining in detail why I don't like Crystalis' combat system. For me this game's combat system is a tedious shitty affair, to put it bluntly. Fair enough, out of curiosity how old were you when you first beat Crystalis? I was 9 years old in 1988 when I played Phantasy Star (beat it in 1989). And it was my very first JRPG. So yes, nostalgia factors in pretty hard. But I still think the original PS is technically outstanding objectively. And I could list some important firsts that Phantasy Star brought to its genre too. I don't think I could do that with Crystalis. And I'm grateful to you for finally getting me to play it!
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Post by Sarge on Jun 11, 2021 13:36:15 GMT -5
Yeah, I was probably somewhere between 11-13 when I played through Crystalis. It was one of my first NES games, given that I didn't actually get an NES until Christmas 1990. I can see where one might not like that combat, though. I think I've just gotten used to it over the years. For some reason, I enjoy the micro-challenge of perfectly timing a charge shot the moment it becomes available. It's probably similar to how I feel about Mega Man's charge shot. Honestly, the best version of the game might have been to have some form of bump combat as well as the charge mechanic. No question what you're describing with the finicky melee combat is why I learned quickly back in the day to not use it much. This last run, I can count on one hand the number of times I actually employed the stab!
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Post by Ex on Jun 11, 2021 14:36:42 GMT -5
I was probably somewhere between 11-13 when I played through Crystalis. It was one of my first NES games Fair enough.
I really want to make it clear to you and paulofthewest , I'm not saying Crystalis is a bad game, I don't think it's bad. I was just expecting a lot more given its highly lauded lineage. But yet again, we all have our unique personal tastes. And good thing too, otherwise HRG would be a boring echo chamber. I wasn't much ahead of you, I didn't get mine until March 17th, 1989. I know the exact date, 'cause I got one for my 10th birthday. That's how I remember when I got my earlier consoles too. 3/17/1987 was when I got an Atari 2600. And 3/17/1988 was when I got a Master System. So forth and so on. My birthday and new consoles were synonymous when I was a kid. Agreed. Adol's ram and rampage coupled with Link's sword blast would have worked well.
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Post by Sarge on Jun 11, 2021 14:44:48 GMT -5
Yeah, a lot of my systems I can often mark by major holidays. Game Boy was Christmas of 1994, PSX was Christmas of '99, and... I think that's actually it. I still remember a few others than I can sort of narrow down by what I got with them, though. Lots of pawn shop purchases and whatnot. (Still have my yard sale SNES with Final Fantasy III!) Of course, the NES was my very first system, so I got a late start on gaming. Boy, I went in whole hog, though. It's definitely good we have diverse perspectives here! I always find it remarkable where we align and where we don't, and getting those alternative perspectives, both positive and negative, forces me to reflect on why I might like or not like a particular game.
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