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Post by Ex on Dec 10, 2022 17:29:21 GMT -5
Ys has been a bit like my Zelda-when-I-am-tired-with-Zelda. I still love the Zelda series but it doesn’t really hold anything new for me. It’s like going to the same restaurant I’ve loved since I was a kid. I still love it, it’s still delicious, but it’s a familiar taste. It’s comfortable and I’ll be there when a new item is released. Until then, however, I’m trying out other dishes and that new dish has been served by the Ys restaurant at the moment. This is a great analogy, and the bolded part is where I've been with Zelda for at least 15 years. If you want something like Zelda but more challenging and different, give the Brandish and King's Field series a try. These are good starting points: Brandish: The Dark Revenant PSP 2015 King's Field 2 PS1 1996 I also no joke found the first Dark Souls to be not entirely unlike Zelda for adults.
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Post by Moulinoski on Dec 11, 2022 10:30:16 GMT -5
I still like going back to Zelda. Sometimes, you just want a bag of chips.
I want to try Brandish someday. I’ve already tried Dark Souls and I don’t dislike it, it’s definitely a good game, but I’m impatient with it a bit. I made it to Blight Town. I got killed without finding a checkpoint and I just decided “screw it”. I also don’t consider Dark Souls to be like Zelda anyway. There are some similarities chiefly being the use of locked doors and the use of keys but in that case Resident Evil is also a Zelda game (and it’s not typically given that comparison). Once you find the equipment you want for your build, finding new equipment is pointless in Dark Souls from what I found. Zelda has you looking for items that will let you move forward. It’s closer to a Metroid style game where Dark Souls is closer to a Castlevania: SotN style game.
For me, Ys manages to feel more like Zelda because of the aforementioned items that help you progress. You go into dungeons, you find an item that helps you progress, you reach the boss and collect the McGuffin you need to access the mid/end dungeon of the game- there sometimes is a point in Zelda and Ys where you collect a few things, making you think you’re nearly done but the inventory menu being half empty should clue you in. That’s another thing I like about Ys that is analogous to Zelda. You can pretty much tell what your progress is by looking at your inventory. The more your inventory is filled with special items, the closer you are to victory. Even Metroid has something like this where the game shows you some statues that you have to work towards. I was thinking Dark Souls didn’t have anything like that but I just remembered that there’s that gate that you have to open by going up to fight the gargoyles and below to whatever you have to do in blight town.
I also prefer the faster and unrestricted movement of the Zelda and Ys series to Dark Souls where attacking takes away a chunk of your stamina. Dark Souls is a slower game. Even if you’re waiting around in Ys or Zelda, you still unfettered movement. In Dark Souls, you have to catch your breath. Of course, you can just keep an eye on your stamina to avoid that (and that’s how Dark Souls should be played). Dark Souls is also more complicated with different kinds of attacks which can almost turn it into a fighting game. Ys is simpler and Zelda the simplest.
I want to stress that I think Dark Souls is a good game. It just requires a different mentality to get the most of it than you would need from Zelda or Ys.
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Post by bonesnapdeez on Dec 11, 2022 11:29:31 GMT -5
The classic Ys games originated on computers, which tended to house a specific type of ARPG. As mentioned, they're typically short with a small but essential inventory, plus a level cap.
The closest thing to Ys is Xak, which I highly recommend.
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Post by Kazin on Dec 11, 2022 13:25:52 GMT -5
When I think of Zelda, I think of simple dungeon puzzles, too, which I don't think the Souls games do much? Granted, I only ever played like an hour of Demon's Souls, and that was in 2009 or 10 or whenever that came out, so I don't remember it well lol
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Post by Xeogred on Dec 11, 2022 13:58:52 GMT -5
Yeah, Soulsborne are more pure action dungeon crawlers. I think the Zelda comparison fits myself in ways though, they're big awesome gothic adventures. But yeah you won't be pushing blocks and stuff. I beat all the King's Field / Shadow Tower games over the last year myself and definitely recommend them. There's surely a chance than some people who don't care for Souls may enjoy these instead, or vice versa. hardcoreretrogaming.boards.net/thread/474/kings-field-shadow-tower-father
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Post by Ex on Dec 11, 2022 19:22:57 GMT -5
The closest thing to Ys is Xak, which I highly recommend. Which versions of the Xak games have you played through? I've always been marginally interested in those.
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Post by toei on Dec 11, 2022 19:37:51 GMT -5
Ex bone probably won't agree, but unfortunately, there is no good version of Xak 1 & 2 available in English. There's the MSX versions, which are extremely choppy (like most MSX games, as the platformer just wasn't made for scrolling), and there's Sunsoft's SNES remake of the first game, which is extremely grindy. The best version by far seems to be Xak I & 2 on the PCE-CD, so hopefully that gets translated eventually. Xak 3 is a PCE-CD exclusive (Tower of Gazzel is a spin-off and isn't really Xak 3), and is worth playing on its own, though you'll need to get transcripts of the anime cutscenes to follow along. It's a solid, fast-paced ARPG that, like old-school Ys, has that condensed storytelling going on, but it doesn't have the bump system and feels a touch darker than Ys, maybe.
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Post by bonesnapdeez on Dec 11, 2022 20:12:04 GMT -5
I don't think toei is entirely wrong. I like Xak I on the SNES but, yeah, they dropped the lightning fast bump system for something more conventional and Zelda-like and it slows the game waaaaay down. It just takes way to long to kill enemies, and all of these games require grinding. The MSX games have amazing aesthetics and ass scrolling. I & II on PCE is amazing, and only in Japanese. I can read enough of the language to get by. Those who can't could probably still muscle through it with a walkthrough. There are a couple of quirks though. For instance, I think towns have weapons shops and weapon upgrade shops. Something like that? Confusing if you can't decipher any Japanese. But seriously, the gulf between PCE Xak and any other versions is tremendous. Think 8-bit Ys vs. TGCD Ys. The Fray stuff is all action-based and pretty easy to get into. I dunno much about The Tower of Gazzel. I think there's a fan translation of one version. Unfortunately all are on Japanese computers; no console port. Xak III, fan-translated, is soooo good and can be played independently. This may be the easiest one to jump in to. It honestly kind of reminds of a top-down Exile. It's super linear (there's a world map but you usually can only choose between two places) and it's so easy to power-level. Amazing art style and of course I love those anime waifus.
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Post by Xeogred on Dec 11, 2022 23:35:26 GMT -5
Xak III looks cool... maybe that's one I should check out. The enthusiasm all this old Falcom stuff gets still eludes me, haha.
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Post by bonesnapdeez on Dec 12, 2022 7:52:41 GMT -5
Xak III looks cool... maybe that's one I should check out. The enthusiasm all this old Falcom stuff gets still eludes me, haha. Yeah Xak III would be the best choice for the Mana/Zelda fans.
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