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Post by toei on Mar 5, 2023 20:43:59 GMT -5
...in which we talk about games we never hear anyone talk about. They don't have to be hidden gems necessarily; they could be just decent or interesting in some way, or bad, doesn't matter, as long as no one talks about them and we want to, if only so we're not talking about MOTHERFUCKING MEGA MAN AGAIN (just joking, Xeogred ). Here's one I don't think I have EVER seen or heard anyone mention, anywhere: Sorcerer's Kingdom. This is a Sega Genesis RPG by an unknown, fly-by-night Japanese developer that was actually officially released in North America in the '90s. It's got an interesting twist; the battle system is essentially a SRPG, however the game plays like a normal turn-based RPG in general - walk around towns, fields and dungeons, etc. Monsters are visible on the field, and battles take place on the same screen as the exploration. When you see monsters, you can pull up your menu and just start a fight, which allows you to move first if the monsters haven't seen you. If they do spot you, it just starts a battle. I enjoyed that system because I like SRPG battles, but I usually get tired of SRPGs because most are nothing but long battles after long battles. Meanwhile, I really like the town, world and dungeon exploration part in regular RPGs, but random encounters get really tiresome. So this is a great mix of the two. Now, I played through this years ago, and I don't remember anything about the story. Which probably means it was nothing mind-blowing, but also nothing terrible. So why does no one talk about it, ever? Well, it was published by Treco, for one, which was hardly a well-known company, and probably had little to no marketing pull. It's also pretty ugly, visually. I appreciate that dark lo-fi early Genesis aesthetic now, but it looks more 1989 than 1992, and most people probably wouldn't find the visuals attractive. Plus it's not on the SNES. But I enjoyed it years ago. It's decent at least. It's certainly better than a lot of better-known RPGs. Note that this video has a dumb emulator filter on, so don't mind the vaseline-smeared look. |
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Post by Xeogred on Mar 6, 2023 1:00:47 GMT -5
Am I the only one here that played Ultima Underworld? I liked it a lot more than System Shock 1 personally, even with my heavy sci-fi bias. I might try to finally play UU2 sometime this year. The bigger screen space for the game world looks awesome. The first game had a bigger UI. It's insane that it barely predates Doom and does a lot more gameplay wise. Truly the grandfather of the immersive sim/FPS.
I never did totally beat UU1 though. I got to the final floor and gave up, because it suddenly turned into a platforming nightmare and jumping/levitation spells in that game were super weird. I'm still annoyed I got that far though without rolling credits...
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Post by Ex on Mar 6, 2023 1:55:16 GMT -5
Good idea for a thread. toei Sorcerer's Kingdom actually looks dope. I like the visual aesthetic and the music. Crazy how obscure this one is despite it got an official western localization. I'll throw it on my Super Console X PRO. Xeogred I have played UU1 and UU2. I did not finish either game (yet - maybe someday). From a technical perspective these were insane for their time, and very much the grandfathers of the FPS/RPG genre. Both games get really cryptic and annoying towards the end though. I found that out from a friend that had beaten both games, and it put me off finishing them. One of my favorite things about these dungeon crawlers, is they have a great auto-map and you can even annotate it in-game. -
Real easy for me to bring up SCUBA diving adventure games for this thread. I love that genre... apparently no one else online does. Same goes for combat flight simulators. But that feels like cheating.
It's also easy to think of 10+ year old PC games I've loved that no one here would ever play. For instance I've championed The Lost Crown, Miasmata, and The Scheme a few times here, always crickets.  Well let me think of something more approachable. Howabout... Malaya's Treasure (AKA Malaya No Hihou)
Released in 1988 for the MSX 2    It's kind of like Super Pitfall meets Castlevania 2. Here's my thoughts from 2016 when I beat this one:
In 1988, Pony Canyon released Malaya No Hihou, or rather "Malaya's Treasure", for the Japanese PC known as the MSX2. Malaya's Treasure saw limited release in its home country, and was never ported to any other platform, nor localized outside of Japan. Due to its obscurity, many gamers have never heard of Malaya's Treasure, understandably. But then in 2010, the fan trans group "MSX Translations" released an English patch for Malaya's Treasure, finally making this esoteric release accessible for the discerning English language gamer.
The premise of Malaya's Treasure is simple. You play the role of a treasure hunter, who's traveled to the Philippines, in search of Yamashita's gold (or The Tiger of Malaya as he was nicknamed). To find this legendary loot, the player must explore a dangerous landscape. Deadly jungles, murky swamps, dangerous mountains, creepy caves, and trap laden temples await. And if that's not tricky enough, there are magical puzzles to solve as well. Thankfully the local village folk are friendly, and will happily aid the player in their quest. For a price, of course.
Malaya's Treasure's core gameplay is one of exploratory platforming. However this is no metroidvania, but rather a collection of five very large stages. Each stage branches and is at times recursive, with various obstacles that must be overcome in the correct order to proceed. The player must kill enemies for gold, and use the gold to buy keys, bombs, and life restoratives. Keys open locked doors of course, but bombs are even more important. The player throws bombs to discover secret passages and hidden powerups. You'll never know which rocks can be destroyed until you try, luckily you can carry up to 99 bombs. But again, they cost cold hard cash, so just tossing them about randomly isn't the best idea.
Jumping over spikes, bombing rocks, and solving strange puzzles is capped off by lots of fighting. The player is given a sword to combat monsters with, and this sword can be leveled up with hidden items. The sword also has the ability to shoot fire balls out of itself, when the player finds the magical bonuses that allow for it (but they expire over time). Besides regular wild animals, the player must also fight monsters and ghosts. And of course bosses, from time to time. The bosses can be fairly challenging and are immune to sword magic unfortunately.
Although Malaya's treasure is graphically primitive, its consistent and simple graphics have a lot of charm. The controls are easy and highly precise. The fan translation is excellent, and allowed me to finish the game without a walkthrough. The sense of exploration is palpable, you really do feel like an Indiana Jones-esque treasure hunter seeking fame and fortune amongst the wilds of the Philippines. If I have one complaint though, it's that the OST isn't so hot. Actually for the most part, it's pretty bad. There are a few decent tunes, but the MSX2 can do far more than what this game asks of it.
If I were to sum up Malaya's Treasure in a short description, it'd be; Super Pitfall meets Castlevania 2. If that sounds like a good time, then by all means track this one down. Malaya's Treasure is not a very difficult game, but it's quite fulfilling in its own simple ways. Sometimes it's nice to go back and play something that at once feels nostalgic, yet also exotic, and Malaya's Treasure is exactly that. So despite this game languishing in obscurity for nearly three decades, I still enjoyed this unprententious little expedition no worse for the wear. Whether or not you find the legendary titular golden hoard, know that the real treasure here lies in the hunt. 7/10
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Post by Moulinoski on Mar 6, 2023 8:07:54 GMT -5
I think only Spoony ever talked about Ultima: The Runes of Virtue and that was only a short blurb to compare it to Runes of Virtue II for SNES (and Gameboy).
I discovered RoV 1 a few years ago and it left an impression on me since. It’s the first Ultima game I managed to beat (out of two and the only one I did without resorting to using a guide from the beginning). I recently played through it again. It’s not a great game by any means but I liked it enough. It’s actually improved if you play it using a Gameboy Color or perhaps a Super Gameboy for the added colors. The sprites are small and the artist uses the alpha color as white so some characters don’t look right standing on certain tiles. The added colors help with that.
Anyway, the game is very simple and resembles a Legend of Zelda game. There are eight dungeons based on a virtue each. They each have a certain theme which also instructs what puzzles and hazards you’ll face inside. For example, the first dungeon of hatred has a few rooms where you can make monsters fight each other as a spectator sport, you can lock yourself in with a bunch of monsters to clear out and earn a reward, and in between there are small rooms with a monster each to fight against. Another dungeon, greed or deception, will actually suck your money if you touch money that’s just lying about the dungeon floor (money left over by enemies is safe).
I think it’s a fun game. I was making a hack that converts it into a Zelda game but I got distracted and never finished it. I think I’ll get back to it, though. I keep thinking about it.
—
Super Robot Pinball is another little known game that I love. It’s for Gameboy and while many people talk about the turn based SRW games (and there are also RTS and shooting games) I don’t believe I see anyone talking about this one. It’s pinball with two tables but if you play the normal mode you will alternate between the two and eventually reach the equivalent of a final boss (but the game loops after you defeat it). There are several robots to use and robots and monsters to fight all of which get added to your library after you use or fight them. I liked trying to fill my library and I managed to do it for the robots at one point (not too difficult since you have some control over which robots appear for you to use depending on who you pick at first and previously; so if you picked Gundam first you will likely see Wing Gundam next).
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Post by nullPointer on Mar 6, 2023 11:52:19 GMT -5
toei Wow Sorcerer's Kingdom looks pretty great. I feel like the Genesis/MegaDrive was fairly sparse on RPGs (or at least ones not developed by Sega), but maybe that's a misconception on my part? I really can't think of very many beyond ones with 'Phantasy' or 'Shining' in the title. Xeogred - I've not played either of the Ultima Underworld titles although I did play The Elder Scrolls: Arena at the tail end of last year which is a somewhat similar first-person dungeon crawler. You don't hear too many people talking about that one either, though in that case perhaps it's not without reason. It definitely has some noteworthy flaws, but I enjoyed my time with it for the most part. Part of that may have been the novelty of playing it on Steam Deck though (including the meta-game of 'make an archaic PC game feel more-or-less like a native experience on a portable platform') This is one of the titles near the top of my list for 3rd Gen Club Retro! I wanted to tackle a game on a system for which I've never completed a game, and I think PC-88 is looking like the winner. In point of fact the game I really wanted to play was XZR: Hakai no Gōzō ... because, wow ... that sounds completely batshit insane and awesome, but apparently it's never been translated and I feel like the inherent weirdness should probably be experienced with at least some degree of context. I was a bit disappointed to learn there was no translation (and immediately felt like a spoiled modern gamer at the fact that I was disappointed, lol). At any rate I think The Scheme is my #2 choice on PC-88. Super Robot Pinball is another little known game that I love. It’s for Gameboy and while many people talk about the turn based SRW games (and there are also RTS and shooting games) I don’t believe I see anyone talking about this one. Sounds a little bit like a precursor to Metroid Prime Pinball? I think the pinball format really lends itself well to portable gaming. I'll have to check out Super Robot Pinball!
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Post by Ex on Mar 6, 2023 12:23:00 GMT -5
I think The Scheme is my #2 choice on PC-88. I can only recommend The Scheme to seriously hardcore "metroidvania" enthusiasts. It's legit difficult (without a walkthrough) and it's definitely archaic... but also quite fun for a niche gamer. Killer OST too. Well, I'd love for you to give it a shot!
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Post by Moulinoski on Mar 6, 2023 12:27:33 GMT -5
Super Robot Pinball is another little known game that I love. It’s for Gameboy and while many people talk about the turn based SRW games (and there are also RTS and shooting games) I don’t believe I see anyone talking about this one. Sounds a little bit like a precursor to Metroid Prime Pinball? I think the pinball format really lends itself well to a portable gaming format. I'll have to check out Super Robot Pinball! Kind of but only in spirit since they’re made by completely different developers. Super Robot Pinball by Banpresto and Media Factory while Metroid Prime Pinball was made by Fuse Games. Regardless, I definitely recommend checking out Super Robot Pinball! Don’t expect too much, it’s a a Gameboy Color game after all, but I really like it for what it is. — Some day I’ll learn how to emulate PC-88 and PC-98 games. That day won’t come for a while though. I feel like in order to emulate it properly, I’d need to emulate it on a PC (or laptop) and not on something like a Steam Deck. I rarely ever play games on a laptop. I can dust my GPD Win Max off and try there, though. — I think Hydlide has been talked about in derogatory ways thanks to the bad NES game the US got. Super Hydlide, or Hydlide 3, on Genesis and PCs of the time is pretty neat however. That said, I played the rebalanced hack which makes it a bit more enjoyable to play. But the ideas in it are pretty ambitious. It’s a bit like an alternate take on how Ultima would have looked like if the series had kept going with the format found in Ultima 1 and 2 versus the change we saw in Ultima 3. It’s an interesting game. As ProJared said in his review: it’s like a spacesuit. It’s ugly and clunky but the ideas it provides are genuinely interesting and exciting. Plus, you get to go to space! (If Super Hydlide interests you and you want to play it, I don’t recommend watching his video until after you’ve played it since he essentially recaps the entire campaign) |
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Post by nullPointer on Mar 6, 2023 12:51:49 GMT -5
Some day I’ll learn how to emulate PC-88 and PC-98 games. That day won’t come for a while though. I feel like in order to emulate it properly, I’d need to emulate it on a PC (or laptop) and not on something like a Steam Deck. I rarely ever play games on a laptop. I can dust my GPD Win Max off and try there, though. If you're running RetroArch on your Steam Deck, there is a PC-88 core available. That said, I've not tried it either, and it does rank fairly low in terms of Emulation General Wiki's recommendations (which are by no means a gospel of course, but I've generally found their recommendations to be a decent guideline). I do run MSX2 through RetroArch on Steam Deck though, and that's been a fairly seamless experience so far, so maybe there's hope for PC-88. |
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Post by Ex on Mar 6, 2023 13:04:47 GMT -5
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Post by toei on Mar 6, 2023 13:49:03 GMT -5
nullPointer The Genesis is somewhat light on RPGs compared to the SNES's huge library. That's especially true for traditional turn-based RPGs. It does have a nice action-RPG library: Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, Crusader of Centy, Light Crusader. King Colossus, which was fan-translated. I like all of those. Super Hydlide, which looks terrible but is, in fact, pretty good. Ys III, which I like, and is the best port of the original game IMO. Oh, and Exile, which is XZR 2! I actually like that game a lot and would love to see a translation of the first, too, but as far as Exile goes, the Turbo-CD version is better; CD-quality music, better translation, and a font you can actually read. For SRPGs, it has both Shining Forces and Warsong (the first Langrisser), a solid, more hardcore game. Langrisser 2 is also fan-translated, and is very good. Vixen 357 was fan-translated and released officially a few years back - it sucks because enemies have such high defense that it takes forever to kill anything. As far as turn-based RPGs released officially at the time, it's pretty much just Phantasy Star 2-3-4... except for these two no one talks about, Sorcerer's Kingdom and Traysia. Traysia is a typical Telenet RPG; good music, slightly above-average story that does a few interesting things, but weak gameplay. As with Cosmic Fantasy 2 on the Turbo-CD (another game of theirs that was released at the time), the enemies literally cannot hurt you throughout almost the entire game. They hit for 1 damage. That makes random encounters seem even more tedious. A few more came out in the years since. Recently, Maten no Soumetsu was fan-translated; it's completely awful, to the point of being unplayable. No other 16-bit RPGs requires literally 1/4th the amount of grinding this one does. I used to be obsessed with the genre and played most of them - I'm being completely serious when I say 1/4th. Blue Almanac was released as Star Odyssey by SuperFighterTeam in the 2010s I think. It's quite bad. It was made by Hot-B, a famously mediocre-to-bad developer, and you can feel it throughout. Then there are the Taiwanese RPGs, a few of which were released in English since and are officially available. Beggar Prince was the first. It's just okay. Legend of Wukong came after. It's terrible, another sub-NES RPG with almost no text and nothing but grinding. You're literally better playing the most random, least ambitious Dragon Quest-clone you can find. I bought it at the time and hated it. Then there's Brave Battle Saga, which is actually, legitimately good. It starts out a little rough when you're alone, but from the moment you recruit other characters to your party until the end, I really liked it. And then among the rare ones still untranslated, there's Surging Aura. Sega was involved in development and the graphics are similar to Phantasy Star IV, everyone's favorite Genesis RPG, so people have always wanted to see it translated. I've played some of the the French fan-translation - like, a good 5 hours, I'd say - and it's probably just okay. Felt rushed and, again, very underdeveloped, script-wise. Oh, another I really wanted to see translated, though it's a long shot, is the Genesis version of Sorcerian. It was made in-house, largely by the Phantasy Star team, and features all-original scenarios, so it's actually not a port at all - it's a brand new Sorcerian game. I'm a Phantasy Star fan, so I'd love play that. Sorcerian is a mission-based side-scroller RPG series. The basic issue is that all the big third parties who knew how to make turn-based RPGs were going to work on the Super Famicom/SNES, since it had a huge userbase in Japan and RPGs were in; many of the smaller, but promising studios went for the PCE-CD, which also got a fair share of them. Sega's Megadrive had this image of this hardcore action console in Japan, and it was huge in the West, where RPGs weren't in, so most RPGs were made by Sega themselves or close collaborators, who could only make so many, with very little third-party support. Oh, and for WRPGs, I really Shadowrun, which is a different game than the SNES Shadowrun (which is also good), much more non-linear and sort of... open-world, I guess. It's hard to get started - you can die really easily early on - but once you make it past this hurdle it's really cool, with a great setting, lots to do, and a main story that progresses like a real investigation.
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Well let me think of something more approachable. Howabout...
