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Post by Ex on Jun 6, 2018 10:03:34 GMT -5
For those of you who enjoy gaming on actual original hardware, how concerned are you about the abrasive sands of time's effect on said hardware? How do you plan to mitigate the effects of wear and tear over decades on devices not designed to last that long? If there ever comes a day where all hardware for a particular console has perished, would you emulate it? Do you think emulation in the long term is the savior of retro gaming? Or do you think physical remakes/reiterations of classic hardware is? How long can cartridges and CDs last in tandem? Are ROMs and ISOs the long term saving grace there?
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Post by Sarge on Jun 6, 2018 11:26:58 GMT -5
I'm already running into this. It does concern me to some extent, but I also have the means to fix most of the common problems, which usually revolve around bad caps. I just have to stop being lazy about it. I've got a 3DO that has (almost) lost all of its audio, and needs a recap. I've got a Genesis where the sound chip crackles. Probably a bad ground connection somewhere, as a recap didn't fix it. My childhood NES now has noise in the composite signal, which I would assume means there's a cap going bad in that circuit. Seeing all this stuff deteriorate kinda sucks. The ROMs should hold up, but there are a few caps in most carts as well, so that might be something that would eventually need to be replaced. CDs will also succumb, and I don't think there's much that can be done about that other than good storage. Potentially, the ROMs would last longer than CDs... maybe. Emulation is absolutely the only true way to preserve these consoles. It's why I can appreciate the efforts of those that try to capture the actual behavior of the system. I already emulate as well as use real hardware, so I can appreciate the benefits of both. I used to worry about this even more, but as I advance in age, I also realize there are other things I should worry about more. So while it still bothers me, it bothers me less. I'm just going to enjoy what I've got while I can keep it running.  |
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Post by Xeogred on Jun 6, 2018 17:13:22 GMT -5
File sharing has always been a positive in preserving history and art. I'm always a fan. As for the issue at hand here, let me be completely honest and say that I wish I could just be ignorant about it and try my best to not worry about it.  |
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Post by Sarge on Jun 6, 2018 22:03:43 GMT -5
I mean, thankfully, there are people that do this sort of repair work, so if you're willing to fork over the cash, you can keep these systems going for a while. I actually worry a bit more about laser-based systems; at some point I have to imagine getting replacement parts will be difficult. Which probably means I need to order one of those HOP-M3 lasers for my Duo.
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Post by anayo on Jun 7, 2018 6:13:02 GMT -5
I have doubles of almost every classic game console that isn't rare, uncommon, or pricey (so I only have one Vectrex, Sega CD, and Turbo Grafx 16). I'm not sure what to do about those. The only one that really worries me is the Vectrex. As for the common consoles (NES, Genesis, SNES), when capacitors start failing I'll look into how to replace them. I'll make the most of it and probably use it as an excuse to tinker in a self-indulgent kind of workshop setting.
I don't see emulation going anywhere anytime soon, as it has made retro gaming pretty democratic and accessible to everyone interested in it since the early 2000's. I remember playing rare Genesis and SNES games on my Pentium 4 PC as early as 2004 and thinking it was so cool. I believe more youngsters will find their way to emulation and ROM sites to try these out in the coming decades. As for authentic hardware, a lot of work is being done with hybrid technologies like EverDrives and SD card adaptors for CD-based consoles. I think these will provide some mileage. FPGA technology seems to hold a lot of promise as well. I just hope these go down in price, because right now the FPGA solutions for SNES and Turbo Grafx CD cost even more than the original hardware.
What I'm most curious about is what hardware failure and an aging population will hold in store for public interest in retro gaming and the value of original hardware and games. Of all the kids born in 2025 who come of age around 2040 or so, how many will take an interest to their parents' and grandparents' video games? If it becomes harder and harder to find working Sega and Nintendo hardware, will working and complete specimens become highly valuable and sought after (even more so than now)? Or nobody care enough for that to happen?
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Post by Ex on Jun 7, 2018 10:30:17 GMT -5
Video games are a unique medium in many ways, but one of the worst ways is the proprietary format of any given game. Since these things require specific hardware to play, that makes maintaining their persistence all the more difficult. Unlike a movie, album, or book, which can be experienced on many different formats (movie = VHS/DVD/Blu-ray/streaming,etc. music = vinyl, cassette, CD, MP3, etc. book = paper, digital, audio) video games require either their specific hardware or emulation (hard or soft emulation). Games are simply more difficult to maintain and experience because of this fact. In the longest of the long run, I only see emulation as the true savior of classic gaming continuation. Someday in years to come we may see PS4 or Xbox One emulation... it's all necessary if we're going to maintain playable proprietary format games in the future. Of all the kids born in 2025 who come of age around 2040 or so, how many will take an interest to their parents' and grandparents' video games? I'd wager that there will always be a niche segment of young people interested in games of the past. Just as there are young people interested in the books, movies, and albums of the past. The problem though, is as I said before; experiencing fifty year old video games will be more difficult because of their proprietary formats. Again this is where emulation seems the convenient and accessible solution. That said... If it becomes harder and harder to find working Sega and Nintendo hardware, will working and complete specimens become highly valuable and sought after (even more so than now)? Or nobody care enough for that to happen? I believe working classic hardware will only increase in monetary value. An analog would be synthesizers (as in the musical instruments). Convincing emulation exists of specific vintage synthesizers. However the legit vintage synthesizers being emulated still maintain their value, and that value only continues to increase over time. Hardware being physical is naturally subject to increasingly rarity due to diminishing factors. Not to mention as the population of humans continues to explode that means there's always less availability per interested party. |
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Post by Sarge on Jun 7, 2018 11:03:06 GMT -5
The more I think about it, I don't know that there will be many more of our generation that will "age out" by this point. If we haven't dropped off yet, I figure it's a lifetime thing. As Ex says, there will always be a small set of younger folks interested in newer games. It also helps that the indie scene has helped make "old" graphics more mainstream with the younger set. Plus, lots of tablet/phone games sport retro styles, so at least it's a known thing to the younger crowd, as opposed to some of us who grew up with constantly advancing consoles and turned our nose up when the newest, latest, and greatest system came out.
As far as the hardware, that's going to keep getting more valuable, I think. As Ex says, keeping those things running may end up difficult in the long run, so the supply is going to dwindle. Granted, there are a lot of NES systems, but how many are stuck in someone's loft, and assuming they don't just decay from disuse, do they just get thrown out in the trash? That's a bit depressing to think about, actually.
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Post by Ex on Jun 7, 2018 11:19:53 GMT -5
I don't know that there will be many more of our generation that will "age out" by this point. If we haven't dropped off yet, I figure it's a lifetime thing. I've already invested over thirty five years into this hobby, yeah I'm pretty sure I'll be doing this till I'm dead. - As electronics change I have to wonder about the dwindling supply of replacement electronics for decades old hardware. I mean there has to come a point where no one is making the capacitors a NES used, or the diodes a Genesis used, or the fuses a PlayStation used, etc. |
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Post by Sarge on Jun 7, 2018 11:26:42 GMT -5
Actually, I'm less worried about the caps and such. Those are pretty generic parts that can be replaced by nearly anything, and electrolytic capacitors are still used in tons of stuff. But there's nothing that says you have to use electrolytic, even. It's just cheaper that way. Fuses, too; I replaced a surface-mount one in my Sega CD years ago with a normal, in-line type (looks like a resistor), and it works swimmingly. Unless we just somehow get completely away from the way our current electronics work, we should be okay. I worry more about the custom parts, like laser assemblies and whatnot. Guess that's where the optical drive emulators could come in.
What's even worse is thinking about when the chips go bad. CPUs do die. Chips go bad. Those are going to be tougher, because Nintendo's not going to be manufacturing any more NES PPUs any time soon.
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Post by Ex on Jun 7, 2018 11:46:10 GMT -5
I worry more about the custom parts, like laser assemblies and whatnot. Guess that's where the optical drive emulators could come in. I agree these mods that get rid of the optical discs and use USB or card readers instead are ideal. Good stuff. What's even worse is thinking about when the chips go bad. CPUs do die. Chips go bad. Yes there's a whole host of custom chips in these old consoles. DAC,CPU, PPU, RAM, CIC, DSP, SMP, and so on. Even if you find a replacement chip, desoldering the old one and soldering in the new one is tricky business. It can also be fun if you're into that sort of stuff. (It's not fun to me!) |
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