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Post by Ex on Mar 14, 2019 8:14:00 GMT -5
Disclaimer: When I say "mech", I mean large combat-offensive machinery shaped vaguely humanoid, that is piloted by a physically internal human. I'm not talking about remote controlled robots or self-reliant AI controlled robots.
I know some of us here enjoy mech games, but what are your big favorites in the genre? Are there any mech games that you strongly dislike? --- Ex's top 5 favorite mech games:
Armored Core: Project Phantasma | PlayStation | 1998
I've beaten the first four games in the Armored Core series, and enjoyed every one. For those that enjoy intimately designing their own mech, and using it in real time combat, the concept doesn't get better than Armored Core. Project Phantasma has an excellent mix of campaign and arena based missions. Faselei! | NeoGeo Pocket Color | 1999
This is not only the best NGPC game, but also one of the best mecha turn-based SRPGs as well. It's hard not to fall in love with the "pre-program your battle moves" combat system. Faselei! is a surprising amount of fun packed into an unassuming little package. Front Mission 4 | PlayStation 2 | 2004 I've finished nearly every Front Mission series entry, of the five core games FM4 is my favorite. It's large, sprawling, has a complex mature story, tons of wanzers to build and destroy, and some truly challenging missions. Its dual protagonist campaign keeps missions fresh as you bounce between exotic jungles and war torn cities. Front Mission: Gun Hazard | Super Famicom | 1996
Most of us here know why this game is so good. But for newcomers, this is a side scrolling mecha action-RPG, presented in a platformer format. Lots of depth, tons of content, great everything - including some of the best graphics on SFC/SNES. MechWarrior 3 | PC | 1999 It's a shame this game doesn't run well on modern PCs, because I'd sure love to see a GOG version. MW3 offers deep complexity in its control interface, fun mech design, and difficult mission objectives. Not much is funner in life than marauding through a battlefield as an unstoppable titan of laser spewing death. - I'll talk about some mech games I don't like next time.
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Post by Sarge on Mar 14, 2019 10:49:51 GMT -5
I've really only put a lot of time into three of those games: Gun Hazard (amazing!), Faselei! (really good!), and Front Mission 4 (also really good!).
My brother was a huge mech fan, though, and played the mess out of most of the MechWarrior games. I still have the soundtrack from MechWarrior 2 in all its forms seared into my brain. I also remember him playing through MW3 on our at-that-point-creaky Pentium 166 MHz and taking out enemies from clear across the map sniping at them. Good times.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 17:57:20 GMT -5
Yep, Front Mission 4 deserves to be up there. That reminds me I still intend to play Faselei!, I'll probably get to it later this year. As for the mech games Ex doesn't like, I'm pretty sure Shogo is in there. I'd probably say Robotica for the Saturn myself, although it's not terrible, just mediocre.
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Post by Xeogred on Mar 14, 2019 20:32:15 GMT -5
I'm surprised to see you guys always give FM4 a lot of love. Just because I feel like I've seen more people talk about FM3 over the years... could just be some blinders I've had on though. I've tried getting into FM3 a few times back in the day and while sci-fi is an instant love for me and I love its OST (FM4's doesn't seem as good either?), it somehow hasn't ever pulled me in. I got FM4 thanks to Ex and plan to give that one a shot sometime, but maybe the DS remake first. Gun Hazard should still be HRG's mascot. Best retro game I played last year. Maybe not quite up there with Secret of Mana, FF4-6, or Chrono Trigger for me personally, but still an S rank SNES Square Soft experience that everyone needs to play. I've played a handful of the Armored Core's from the PSX to the 360 and I always fall back on Armored Core 2 being my top favorite. I haven't played this one since ~2003 when it was out, but I liked MechAssault a ton. Reminded me a lot of the classic isometric Desert Strike styled games where you're thrown in a sandbox and just get to go crazy blowing up buildings and wreck chaos. I played a bit of the sequel just last year and it seems solid, didn't fully jump into it though.
Yes in fact, despite its reputation and excellent OST aside, I think Zone of the Enders 1 is HORRIBLE. The protagonist has to be one of the worst I've ever seen in a game, topped off with an abysmal dub. The voice acting was downright wretched and intolerable, when I usually have high tolerance for bad game dubs from its era. Everything from the mission structure, controls, etc, this game just sucks and I'm pretty sure a demo of it came with MGS2 or something... the entire game itself feels like a lame long demo and a proof of concept rather than a fleshed out game.
Thankfully, ZOE2 is a HUGE improvement and I can't think of any real nitpicks for this one, but I still would never say it's anything I love. I was exposed to these back in the day but played them all the way through just a few years ago on the PS3 HD Collection, so there's no nostalgia talking here. ZOE1 did not age well at all. I enjoyed watching the goofy anime more than playing these games.
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Post by Ex on Mar 14, 2019 21:02:59 GMT -5
I'm surprised to see you guys always give FM4 a lot of love. Just because I feel like I've seen more people talk about FM3 over the years... It's probably because FM4 is wayyyy more challenging than FM3. Most people prefer easy games. For hardcore retro gamers, FM4 is the winner. (Not that I didn't enjoy FM3.) I definitely recommend playing FM1 first, and maybe FM3 after that. I would never recommend FM4 (and especially not FM5!) as someone's first FM. I did beat that one! According to my HLTB, that was three years ago. I gave it a 7/10 and wrote this review: Armored Core 2 is actually the fourth game in the Armored Core series, and the first entry on the PS2. AC2 largely apes previous installments insofar as main game design is concerned. That is to say; you play as a mercenary (Raven) taking on jobs from competing corporations, using the profits to evolve your armored core (mech), so that you might rule the arena, thereby having maximum prestige and profits. Whether doing missions or fighting in the arena, the gameplay remains the same. This is third person robot shooting action with a tiny hint of strategy.
The most important strategic element, is designing your armored core for maximum capability. You'll choose from hundreds of parts, carefully constructing a custom armored core, all depending on the requirements of any given mission or arena challenger. This aspect is often daunting for newcomers, and some people give up as soon as they realize how deep the customization is. For anyone who thinks maintaining a single armored core is too daunting, all I can say is they should never play Front Mission.
As far as improvements go, AC2 is a fair graphical improvement over its predecessors. (Though this has more to do with the PS2 than FromSoftware really pushing amazing graphics.) And the inclusion of voice acting during mission dialogues is nice. However, I found the arena to be not as challenging as previous installments. But on the other hand, missions were often much tougher than previous AC games. This has more to do with balancing issues, meaning the designers obviously favored one certain type of AC design for their playtesting. And truly Armored Core 2 often feels rough around the edges, likely a result of rushed development, as FromSoftware was in a hurry to release PS2 games ahead of other developers back in 2000.
For the right person, Armored Core 2 is a worthy investment of their time. And by right person, I mean someone who loves giant robots, enjoys endlessly tinkering with configurations, and is tenacious enough to ignore antiquated graphics and short sighted controls. If you are that type of gamer, Armored Core 2 will scratch that mech shaped itch. Albeit not as well as its predecessors did. Still, all things considered, Armored Core 2 is a good start to the long PS2 run of this series.
I plan to play through Armored Core 2: Another Age this year. I really love this series, but it's easy to burn yourself out on it if you don't take breaks. (We can't all be @tsumuri ;p ) Yep I beat that one and its sequel on Xbox. I finished them both back in 2014. My thoughts from back then if interested:
MechAssault MechAssault is not so much a mech simulator so much as a third person arena shooter. Forget customizing your mech parts or even mixing and matching weapons for that matter. In MechAssault you choose a preconfigured mech and proceed to shoot other mechs and that's about it. The action is fast and furious with simple controls and simple goals. A distinct lack of checkpoints can make certain missions infuriating, as MechAssault can be a pretty tough affair at times. The simplicity of the game is slightly bolstered by nice graphics and huge explosions, but the lackluster plot leaves little impetus behind the action. If you're looking for a hardcore strategic mech simulator you won't find it in MechAssault. But if you just want to run around in a mech suit and shoot everything in sight, this is your game. 6/10
MechAssault 2: Lone Wolf As a sequel, MechAssault 2 both improves and devolves upon its predecessor's groundwork. Graphics have greatly improved, this is one impressive looking title for Xbox. The mechs look wonderful, the scenery convincing, the particle effects and explosions grandiose, and the real time cutscenes are rendered amazingly well. Game complexity has also improved, due to the ability to exit a mech and run around on foot and get into another mech during a mission. There are also tanks to drive and planes to fly. Unfortunately mission design has not improved. While there's more variety to the proceedings, sometimes said variety is ill suited to this sort of game. No one is playing a mech simulator because they want to run around on foot doing a stealth infiltration. Who wants to play a pattern based Simon simulator pushing colored button sequences to unlock doors? Not only that, but you are never allowed to choose the mech you want to take into battle, let alone customize it. Ignorant design decisions such as these do not adhere properly to the mech simulation genre. That said, there are moments in the campaign that are truly impressive with sweeping vistas and frantic multi mech battles. But then you have a final boss battle where you are forced to fight in the weakest mech available against an opponent that is insanely overpowered in comparison. All while listening to a ridiculous Korn nu-metal track ad nauseum until it's finally beaten. MechAssault 2 has its moments, but its clear the developers did not understand the important intricacies of the genre of game they designed. 7/10
I still need to find out how much of an improvement. I beat the original ZOE back in 2007. It didn't make much of an impression on me. And yeah ZOE's protagonist was a total Shinji wuss, hated that little bastard.
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Post by Xeogred on Mar 14, 2019 22:42:49 GMT -5
Yeah I keep thinking about picking up more of the PS2 Armored Core's someday, but there's like 70 of them. I played 2, Another Age, and 3. Another Age and 3 blend in a bit for me... but if you want a more challenging arena (based off your old review there about AC2's arena being easy), I definitely recall those being much harder than AC2's. I don't know why but I've had Evangelion on my mind a bit lately in general. It hit me recently that I would probably like the series way more than I do if Shinji were completely replaced and well, throw 90% of the cast in the cheese grater while you're at it. This is one of the dozens of reasons why I think Xenogears blows it out of the water personally, which also fits this thread! The Xeno games always have tons of great characters on all sides of the conflict. It's obvious Xenogears in particular pulled a lot of influences from NGE though, but Tetsuya Takahashi did things better. I would say I like Xenosaga's "world" even more though and Xenosaga III's implementation of the mecha and battles is probably my favorite in the whole Xeno-verse.
(love this image but I can't find a bigger one right now, should be somewhere...)
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Post by Ex on Mar 15, 2019 0:39:21 GMT -5
I've only attempted to play Xenogears once. I rented it in 1999, and attempted to play it over a weekend. I recall becoming quickly aggravated at the encounter rate of the first area, versus battles that took longer than I liked. I never made it to any of the mech stuff, the battles I witnessed were all human melee related. (I vaguely recall you could input fighting game moves?) I probably only put twenty minutes into Xenogears, and packed it away out of disinterest. Over the years since, I've seen Xenogears praised highly fairly often. Made me realize I'd likely judged the game far too quickly. Now, that was back when I was 20 years old. I'm a more patient player nowadays, I'd possibly become enthused by Xenogears now. It's absolutely a PS1 JRPG I'd like to give another honest try to. It's in a shameful handful of PS1 JRPGs I still haven't gotten around to, with the likes of Final Fantasy VIII and Grandia.
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Has anyone here played this?:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 12:55:58 GMT -5
I'm surprised to see you guys always give FM4 a lot of love. Just because I feel like I've seen more people talk about FM3 over the years... could just be some blinders I've had on though. No, it's just that FM3 is the FFVII of the Front Mission series. Take that as you will... - For the record, there was a top-down MechWarrior game titled Battletech on the Genesis and MechWarrior 3050 on the SNES. I played a bit of it once and it didn't seem particularly good. I also tried the SNES port of the original MechWarrior and it was pretty underwhelming as well. I had fun with Armored Core, but I never managed to finish it. I was pretty bad at it.
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Post by Xeogred on Mar 15, 2019 19:53:52 GMT -5
I've only attempted to play Xenogears once. I rented it in 1999, and attempted to play it over a weekend. I recall becoming quickly aggravated at the encounter rate of the first area, versus battles that took longer than I liked. I never made it to any of the mech stuff, the battles I witnessed were all human melee related. (I vaguely recall you could input fighting game moves?) I probably only put twenty minutes into Xenogears, and packed it away out of disinterest. Over the years since, I've seen Xenogears praised highly fairly often. Made me realize I'd likely judged the game far too quickly. Now, that was back when I was 20 years old. I'm a more patient player nowadays, I'd possibly become enthused by Xenogears now. It's absolutely a PS1 JRPG I'd like to give another honest try to. It's in a shameful handful of PS1 JRPGs I still haven't gotten around to, with the likes of Final Fantasy VIII and Grandia.
The irony is that I think the ground character battles are better than the mecha battles. But the game thought otherwise and the mecha battles/bosses end up taking probably 70% of the game, or at least the majority of the back half. The mecha combat is awesome in its own way but you're right about the character battles with intricate fighting game like inputs and moves you learn throughout the game, they were freaking awesome. The ground battles get cooler the more you learn and can pull off. It reminds me of Chrono Cross with its weird 3 levels and % style thing, but just way way better. One of the characters gets a sword later on and you barely ever get to use it which annoyed me, haha.
Xenogears is a slow burner early on though for sure dude. But man, I think it'd be up your alley for sure with a little patience. Plus, if you get through it someday you'll more easily see what I mean about the huge difference between Gears/Saga and the modern Xeno's... which I still love, but the plots are incredibly bare bones compared to how insane Gears/Saga were.
... funny enough though, Grandia was "that" kind of game for me, played about 30 minutes and hated the beginning. Haven't touched it since, but I always hear nothing but good things haha. I'll have to try it out again someday. On the flip side I played Grandia 2 first back on the PS2 and had a blast with that one, even with how hilariously bad the plot and some of the budget was, the combat system was amazing.
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Post by Sarge on Mar 15, 2019 22:17:03 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the first disc of Xenogears, anyway. It really does kinda fall apart towards the end; there are way too many plot twists crammed into a bunch of expository text dumps. The battle system, at least on foot, rocks. It's like a cooler version of Chrono Cross, I agree. The mech combat is just okay; not offensive, but also nothing to write home about. Although having giant mechs go at it was pretty cool at the time. Xenosaga was a very uneven series for me. I thought the first game was fantastic, the second was "ehhh", and the last was quite good. I have no idea if the first one has even held up after all these years, though; that was in the early days of my PS2 library, and it was likely surpassed in a lot of ways. But who knows? I've thought the plot was a convoluted nightmare with lots of iffy theological terms thrown around, but hey, JRPGs! I still think they're mostly worth playing. One major bit of advice, though, and that's to make sure you figure out Xenosaga II's combat system. It absolutely requires learning how to efficiently "break" an enemy to do damage. Even if you decide to hack your game (I might have done so just to get it over with!), it's a slog. I mean, most games where you hit level 99, you dominate everything, but not here. I'd even posit that outside of survivability, levels aren't going to help a whole lot.
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