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Post by Ex on Mar 12, 2019 13:30:45 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the SMS was better at avoiding sprite flicker than the NES. I haven't done the technical research, but I assume the way the SMS handles sprites versus the way the NES does is rather different. It seems like the SMS prioritizes sprite display, versus the NES prioritizing sprite movement. That's all theoretical though, I could be very wrong.
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Post by toei on Mar 12, 2019 13:48:11 GMT -5
I still wonder how much of that was inherent system limitations, or just talent drain from Nintendo dominating the market. I think I might do some more research today and see if I can get to the bottom of it. (I was looking a bit yesterday, because of course I was.) Also, is it just me, or does the SMS seem to handle sprite flickering differently than the NES? I definitely know it's there, as I started paying attention finally, and it was really clear in something like R-Type. But for whatever reason, I haven't really noticed it quite as much on the SMS. (Or it just could be that I'm so used to it from the NES that I almost don't see it unless it means shots are disappearing and killing me.) I mean, NES games had more slowdowns than the Master System, in my experience. It's not really that surprising for an 8-bit system, and about as common in Game Gear exclusives, so I'd think it's the system itself. Astérix and Land of Illusion show a ton of detail in the sprites, too. I definitely haven't seen the kind of pervasive flicker commonplace in NES games on the SMS, though. In the '80s, during the Master System's Japanese run, it seems the majority of games were programmed by Sega's relatively young home consumer division, with few exceptions (such as Compile, which made a number of SMS games). By the time games like Asterix and Land of Illusion came about, Sega frequently dealt with smaller contractors, many of which also worked on Nintendo consoles (SIMS being the exception, as Sega owned it). But it seems that there was still an internal team dedicated to Master System and GG games; there's a lot of overlap between the developments staff for Astérix, the Illusion series, and Alex Kidd in Shinobi World, which may explain why all of these are generally better than most subcontracted SMS and GG titles. The main game designer for most of these, Yoshio Yoshida, also co-directed Sylvan Tale, which I seem to remember Sarge being a fan of. |
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Post by Sarge on Mar 12, 2019 14:09:32 GMT -5
Yeah, Sylvan Tale is pretty great. I think Ex is right in that the priorities between the developers was a bit different. I know the NES has an advantage in the form of sprite flipping, but the SMS can still do this, it just needs more cart space for storage. Although my understanding is that some devs also used the ample RAM space on SMS to do their own software sprite flipping instead. The NES absolutely has games with tons of slowdown, I'm not disputing that, though. But I feel like the way each system handled that slowdown just "feels" different, at least for the games I've played to this point. In most discussions I've read, I've always assumed the CPU was the bottleneck, but most of the developer types have said the NES and SMS were pretty much identical power-wise in the CPU department, despite the differing clock rates. The NES could do some things the SMS couldn't, and vice versa, and I feel like a lot of that ties more to the PPU/VDP than the CPU, although we do still see bottlenecks in the next generation with the SNES. I did see after the fact on HG101 what you say, toei , that a lot of the team that worked on Castle of Illusion also worked on Asterix, so that explains the similarities for sure. I feel like Sega was just fighting an uphill battle the entire 8-bit generation, and I suspect we'd have seen stuff on the level of the best NES games had the system been more successful. (And make no mistake, there are some trash games on NES, and even more on Famicom, so it could just be that we have so many more great games because there were just that many more games to choose from. I can imagine what it would have looked like to have Capcom, Konami, or Sunsoft on the SMS.) |
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Post by Ex on Mar 12, 2019 16:47:45 GMT -5
I can imagine what it would have looked like to have Capcom, Konami, or Sunsoft on the SMS. That would have been amazing indeed. - Well after some cursing, gratuitous save-stating, and gnashing of teeth: 15. Ninja Gaiden | Master System | 1992
"Ninja Gaiden" is a Master System action-platformer, developed by SIMS, and published exclusively in PAL territories by SEGA in 1992. There are many games named "Ninja Gaiden", and they are all different from one another. The SMS version is no different. Indeed the Master System iteration of "Ninja Gaiden" is entirely different than the famous NES version. The cutscenes, level designs, moves, graphics, music, and even the plot itself are all unique. The plot is about Ryu the ninja taking down an evil Shogun to save a Geisha. Yep it's another "save the princess" plot. "Ninja Gaiden" is really about jumping through tricky platforming environments full of pitfalls and enemies. In the Master System version wall rebound-jumping takes precedence, along with swinging up or down from thin platforms. You of course slash enemies dead along the way, occasionally using found magic as an extra offense. Eventually you reach a boss, defeat it, and move on to the next stage. There are eight stages in total.
Compared to the NES version which I've beaten previously, I honestly found the Master System version more difficult - sans the final boss. (The NES version's final boss is just absurdly hard.) The Master System version of "Ninja Gaiden" starts off easy enough, but it's not long before things change drastically. Unknowable enemy placement becomes routinely positioned to knock the player backwards into death pits. (The NES version did this too, but not nearly as frequently.) The famous hawks of the NES version appear here as well, although they are now much more determined to chase and harass the player. Worse yet invisible enemies will quickly appear either from off-screen, or out of thin air, perfectly timed to interrupt the player's jump - once again knocking Ryu into a pit. Thankfully boss battles aren't too difficult, just requiring pattern memory, and plenty of patience to slowly chip away large amounts of enemy HP.
Perhaps most aggravating of all, is the special magic Ryu has. I'm not talking about the limited use spells that are activated by pressing up and attack. No. Rather when the player presses the jump and slash buttons at exactly the same time, a magic flash kills all enemies on screen - at the cost of a huge chunk of Ryu's life bar. Because the player is jumping and slashing all the time, it's very easy to accidentally lose valuable amounts of said life bar, due to this special magic. It would have been nice to be able just disable that "feature".
+Tighter control than a typical Master System platformer.
+Nice colorful graphics, especially the cutscene images.
+Above average OST for a SMS title.
+Ninja enemies act like ninjas, especially the shadow ninjas.
+Feudal stage designs are aesthetically pleasing.
-Sadistic enemy placement for pit knock back is far too common.
-Jump interrupting enemies quickly appearing out of nowhere is not OK.
-Boss battles can be a slog.
-Wasting the life bar via accidental super magic use. -Not as well designed as the NES version.
On one hand it's cool that an exclusive version of "Ninja Gaiden" exists on the Master System. This version utilizes the colorful palette of the Master System well, with good looking level designs, and pleasing cutscene images. It also manages to have much tighter controls than the average Master System platformer. Unfortunately SIMS decided that the real draw of the NES "Ninja Gaiden", was its legendary difficulty. And in an attempt to capitalize on that aspect, SIMS went too far with the trolling enemy placement. This game really requires the player to memorize a ton of enemy placement to succeed.
It doesn't help that far too enemies take two hits to kill, as opposed to one. That matters when you're landing from a jump, and need to kill the enemy with a jump slash, that you're about to land in front of. Merely wounding the enemy instead, and thus giving the enemy time to counter and knock you back, isn't ideal. It's possible to mitigate this to an extent using various offensive magic, but that's only as good as said magic's supply lasts (not long). All that said, if the player doesn't mind the occasionally unfair challenges, "Ninja Gaiden" on Master System is a good choice for platformer enthusiasts. At least there are (limited) continues. And hey it looks nice, plays well, and has actual blood in its cutscenes. That's right, BLOOD! Don't tell mama-san.
Ex's time to beat: 1 hour 45 minutes
Ex's rating: 6/10
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Post by toei on Mar 12, 2019 16:59:53 GMT -5
"Perhaps most aggravating of all, is the special magic Ryu has. I'm not talking about the limited use spells that are activated by pressing up and attack. No. Rather when the player presses the jump and slash buttons at exactly the same time, a magic flash kills all enemies on screen - at the cost of a huge chunk of Ryu's life bar. Because the player is jumping and slashing all the time, it's very easy to accidentally lose valuable amounts of said life bar, due to this special magic. It would have been nice to be able just disable that "feature"."
This literally never happened to me when I played through the game, and I had no idea it was a thing. Weird.
Also, I just want to reiterate that the trolling enemy placement, as annoying as it is, is still nowhere as bad the NES game's.
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Post by Sarge on Mar 12, 2019 17:00:59 GMT -5
Glad I wasn't the only one that felt it wasn't quite up to snuff. Great review. Although I found that I was able to tank most stuff; it was the pits you mentioned that really get you. Sadistic stuff, especially toward the end. toei: Yeah, I didn't have any trouble with the screen-clear move, either. In fact, I didn't even know it existed until towards the end, when I was wondering what the heck to do with those stupid flames that home in on you and are otherwise unkillable. |
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Post by Ex on Mar 12, 2019 17:11:16 GMT -5
I guess I just spazz my button presses more than you dudes. Dunno.
I do know that was my 7th SMS beat. Going for 10 total. I think I'm gonna hit up slightly more complex stuff than what I've been playing so far, for my last three picks.
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Post by Sarge on Mar 12, 2019 17:15:11 GMT -5
I guess I just spazz my button presses more than you dudes. Dunno. I do know that was my 7th SMS beat. Going for 10 total. I think I'm gonna hit up slightly more complex stuff than what I've been playing so far, for my last three picks. I think that's very possible, actually. Or a function of playing on the PS Classic. I wasn't doing as much quick jumping and slashing, which is something I do a lot of on NES Ninja Gaiden. I had to approach this game very differently, which might explain it. Actually, now that I think about it, I did accidentally trigger it once, but I thought it was an item I picked up at the time. How'd you end up handling the last boss? EDIT: Dang, you're already almost caught up with me. I thought I was cutting a quick pace here! Last night put me at eight games finished. I plan on riding this month's theme out as much as I can, because it really does give me an opportunity to experience a system I don't put a ton of time into. Hopefully I'll be able to speak with a little more authority about the system in the future, and not have to rely on other folks' opinions when it comes to "best of" lists. I've been shying away from the longest stuff for the most part, although I may still give Golvellius a run. toei , I completely agree that the flying enemies suck. They're horrible. That reminds me, what does everyone think of the Double Dragon port? I honestly don't know how folks put it above the NES game, even if it does have co-op. It just feels off in all the wrong ways, especially with the lack of hit stun for enemies. |
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Post by toei on Mar 12, 2019 19:22:57 GMT -5
I don't like the Double Dragon port. Like you said, it doesn't feel right. I don't think there was any legit port of the original DD at the time. The NES game is decent, but it's more its own thing than a port.
There is one good beat-'em-up on the Master System, and it's the Renegade remake, developed by Natsume. This one's definitely better than the NES version. I'm surprised I forgot to recommend it so far.
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Post by Sarge on Mar 12, 2019 19:44:21 GMT -5
Oh, dang. I'll make sure to give it a try, then.
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