|
Post by Ex on Jan 4, 2018 23:43:37 GMT -5
What about hybrid side-scrolling RPGs, like Exile 1 & 2, or Holy Umbrella on the Super Famicom? Both have top-down towns similar to most RPGs, but switch to a side-view during action levels. I haven't played Exile 2 (yet), but the other two are great games. Actually, I think the PC-Engine CD Legend of Xanadu games also slip into side-scrolling levels at times, though they also have top-down Ys-style combat on the overworld. I think any action-RPG that incorporates side scrolling platforming elements is game. I'll add Exile 1 & 2. I've beaten those myself, but forgotten about them. From what I've seen of the Legend of Xanadu games, they should count as well. Bonesnapdeez will correct us if we're wrong. I'll add Holy Umbrella also, thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Jan 4, 2018 23:45:00 GMT -5
Just thought of one: Rambo on NES. For reals. Strider gets close. You gain levels, but it's not from an experience meter, but on killing certain bosses, gaining certain items, or various plot points. To some degree Bionic Commando has some ARPG stylings as well, with a rudimentary EXP system with the life gauge. I don't know about Strider, but Bionic Commando can just barely squeeze in. I forgot about collecting the bullets for EXP, thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Jan 5, 2018 1:07:57 GMT -5
I can't remember if Holy Umbrella has a leveling system, though. I do know it's a fun game, though!
Strider is very much an edge case. I think it depends on what you want to classify as "leveling up", because you definitely do, it's just not from an experience meter. Kind of like how Legend of the Ghost Lion doesn't have EXP either, you level up from finding "Fragments of Hope", but it's still a Dragon Quest clone.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Jan 5, 2018 1:42:01 GMT -5
Well if Strider is that close, I'll go with it. I know the NES version is way different than the arcade version.
The next time I have a really slow day at work, I'll start wracking my brain (and internet resources) to try and beef up this list. After this compendium is fleshed out, I want to do one for retro metroidvanias. I think these resources could be beneficial for lots of folks (even if only via Google search results).
|
|
|
Post by toei on Jan 5, 2018 2:06:36 GMT -5
I can't remember if Holy Umbrella has a leveling system, though. I do know it's a fun game, though! Strider is very much an edge case. I think it depends on what you want to classify as "leveling up", because you definitely do, it's just not from an experience meter. Kind of like how Legend of the Ghost Lion doesn't have EXP either, you level up from finding "Fragments of Hope", but it's still a Dragon Quest clone. But then, aren't we getting very close to the hearts in Zelda, Alundra, etc.? Personally I think leveling-up isn't the one defining factor that makes a RPG; it would be pretty ridiculous to argue that Knight of the Round is one, for example. It's really just a pure beat-'em-up with a mostly cosmetic leveling-up system thrown in for good measure. I would argue that towns with NPCs and shops are just as much of a defining feature of the genre. So are the emphasis on story-telling, exploring dungeons instead of levels, a longer average length than a straightforward action game, permanent equippable items... This is all in the context of classic gaming, though, because in the modern context many of those elements have been recuperated by other genres, but at the time, they all helped to separate RPGs from action games, and I think any game that has enough of them can reasonably be grouped among RPGs. I don't remember for sure about Holy Umbrella, either, and I think it's telling; it doesn't really matter in the long run.
|
|
|
Post by bonesnapdeez on Jan 5, 2018 11:32:08 GMT -5
Remembered this oddity from my collection: Lutter on the Famicom Disk System. It's most certainly a side-scrolling ARPG. The strange thing is that the game is broken up into "levels" and they're constructed around tight corridors like those found in Lode Runner. There is EXP and glorious bump system combat.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Jan 5, 2018 11:36:25 GMT -5
I can't remember if Holy Umbrella has a leveling system, though. I do know it's a fun game, though! Strider is very much an edge case. I think it depends on what you want to classify as "leveling up", because you definitely do, it's just not from an experience meter. Kind of like how Legend of the Ghost Lion doesn't have EXP either, you level up from finding "Fragments of Hope", but it's still a Dragon Quest clone. But then, aren't we getting very close to the hearts in Zelda, Alundra, etc.? Personally I think leveling-up isn't the one defining factor that makes a RPG; it would be pretty ridiculous to argue that Knight of the Round is one, for example. It's really just a pure beat-'em-up with a mostly cosmetic leveling-up system thrown in for good measure. I would argue that towns with NPCs and shops are just as much of a defining feature of the genre. So are the emphasis on story-telling, exploring dungeons instead of levels, a longer average length than a straightforward action game, permanent equippable items... This is all in the context of classic gaming, though, because in the modern context many of those elements have been recuperated by other genres, but at the time, they all helped to separate RPGs from action games, and I think any game that has enough of them can reasonably be grouped among RPGs. I don't remember for sure about Holy Umbrella, either, and I think it's telling; it doesn't really matter in the long run. Yeah, that's why I had mentioned that upgrading via shops can help make it count, at least in my mind. I'm just following the boss! (In other words, Battle of Olympus and Monster World totally count in my mind.)
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Jan 5, 2018 11:40:48 GMT -5
(In other words, Battle of Olympus and Monster World totally count in my mind.) I mean if we really want to start splitting hairs, we could all fall down a serious rabbit hole here. Howabout if it's a platformer that feels sorta kinda like an RPG, and has some kind of character leveling system in it, we'll throw it in the list? You guys feel good about that?
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Jan 5, 2018 11:42:00 GMT -5
I'm cool with that. It's your list, though, so you can do it however you like. I feel like we're going to keep running into edge cases, regardless. Metroid and its ilk should not count, though. The only empowerment is through exploration. I know what you were getting at trying to split those off, and I very much agree that Metroid-style games aren't action-RPGs, but they are close cousins. Kind of like... ...oh crap, I just realized that I guess Link to the Past really is an action-RPG by that metric. The hairs, they are being split.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Jan 5, 2018 12:42:17 GMT -5
I'm cool with that. It's your list, though, so you can do it however you like. I feel like we're going to keep running into edge cases, regardless. Metroid and its ilk should not count, though. The only empowerment is through exploration. I know what you were getting at trying to split those off, and I very much agree that Metroid-style games aren't action-RPGs, but they are close cousins. Kind of like... ...oh crap, I just realized that I guess Link to the Past really is an action-RPG by that metric. The hairs, they are being split. Honestly, if A Link to the Past had more towns and more of a story, I would consider an action RPG. In my mind, Minish Cap or Link's Awakening basically are. But yes, any time you attempt to define a genre, things are bound to get messy. That's why I think it's better not to get too uptight about it and go more with a sort of general feel.
|
|