|
Post by Sarge on Mar 31, 2020 13:31:23 GMT -5
I'm very interested in your final thoughts on Elemental Lords (definitely a shorter way to phrase it), toei. I'm actually pretty impressed by a lot of the sprite work; it definitely doesn't look like a cheap, generic title, at any rate. Which, for whatever reason, is what I tend to think about most SRW games.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Mar 31, 2020 15:01:33 GMT -5
Well, I have one battle left, but I don't think I'll be playing it tonight due to some serious insomnia last night, so I'll just post my review.
Super Robot Wars Gaiden Masou Kishin - The Elemental Lords (SNES, 1996 - Winky Soft/Banpresto)
I don't know which SRPG was the first to make the jump to the isometric view, along with the features that usually accompany that view, such as height factoring in or rear and side attacks causing more damage. I always assumed it was Tactics Ogre, but apparently Front Mission was released a few months earlier, and the development for the two largely overlapped. Front Mission was created by G-Craft, a company formed by former NCS employees, and most of the Japanese SRPG genre spun off from NCS/Masaya, whose early PC SRPGs predate Fire Emblem and the like, so it would make sense. Of course, it might even be a third game I'm not aware of. Either way, G-Craft was later bought and integrated into Squaresoft, as was Quest, so both ended up in the same place. Regardless of which game did it first, the genre widely adopted the isometric style starting in the mid-'90s, to the point where it became the standard form, with some famous exceptions in the form of older, established series like Fire Emblem and Shining Force, and a handful of then-new outliers like G-Craft's own Arc the Lad. Super Robot Wars was another series that mostly stuck with the old overheard view, as far as I can tell, but SRW Gaiden Masou Kishin went isometric, and is said to be very different in both gameplay and visual style from the mainline games.
As I touched on before, it is the first SRW game not to feature any licensed material, and the story can be followed without any knowledge of the series, though it still ties into the games released up to that point. It's the only game I've come across to act both as a prequel and sequel to games released before, which it does by separating the story into two parts. The result is that only a few of the plot threads that begin in the first part carry on in the second, while some of the most important have their resolution briefly summarized, Xenogears Disc 2-style, as they constitute part of the plot of SRW3, 4, and the entirety of SRW EX, the first gaiden in the series.
Still, while there is a lot going on plot-wise, most of the dialogue in the first half is lighthearted banter that serves to establish the numerous characters and their relationships, as well as give a glimpse into the world of La Gias, where this game is situated - a fantasy world inside the hollow shell of the Earth, where large mechas controlled by the spiritual energy of pilots summoned from all over the surface world serve to maintain the peace. It's not all brilliant writing, but it largely works. The second half, meanwhile, has multiple antagonists coming and going, each of them trying to seize power or cause trouble in their own way, keeping you guessing as to who the main enemy will turn out to be. In fact, it depends; there are multiple junction points in the story, depending on various decisions you make along the way, leading to four possible final battles and endings. Apparently, there are a little over 100 scenarios possible, though a full playthrough is only 46.
Here are the main gameplay elements that stand apart from other SRPGs I've played:
-Whenever one of your units is attacked, you can decide whether you counterattack (and with which weapon), defend, or evade. The game will provide you stats about the likely outcome to base your decision on. Let's say an enemy hits hard, but only has a 45% hit rate... you might choose to counter since there's a good chance you won't take any damage, or evade and lower that hit rate further to something like 25%. It makes enemy turns a lot more interesting.
-The equivalent of support magic, Spirit, doesn't use up your turn. You can choose to use all of it in one turn if you like, then still go and attack. It's extremely useful, too. For example, a common Spirit, Flash, negates damage for the next attack you receive (no matter how many turns after you cast it); another, Hot Blood, doubles the damage you inflict for one encounter. A Spirit I got late in the game let me give another turn to a character that had already acted - again, without affecting the Spirit user's turn.
-There's a stat called Will. Outside of a few special battles, all your characters start each battle with 0, and it increases as you attack and get attacked. The most powerful moves, which you get mostly in the later half of the game, require a certain amount of Will before you can use them. That means later on, a big part of the flow of battle is increasing your Will by fighting weaker enemies so you can use your super-powered moves on the bosses. There are also Spirits that boosts your Will instantly, though they're pretty costly. So, taken together, Will and Spirit means you can basically set up these incredibly powerful attacks; I had a character deal 60,000 points in one turn, when his regular attacks did about 4000. This isn't a way to break the game, it's how you're supposed to play it (later on); you have to find a way to kill individual bosses within a turn or two, or you might not be able to, as most of them regain a certain amount of HP each turn, and they're likely to kill your party members one by one if you run out of Spirit Points.
-Regenerating HP is one of many passive skills which many of your characters also get, though you tend to regain a lot less HP in a turn. Later on in the game, almost everyone, friend or foe, ends up with Move Twice, which essentially means they have two turns per turn, completely changing the dynamic. Other passive skills have a random chance of activating whenever applicable - the higher the skill level, the higher the percentage - such as attacking twice in one encounter, turning around when attacked from behind or the side (thus taking less damage), etc. You can see what skills your enemies have so you can plan ahead to minimize the risk. It's RNG, but it's RNG you can take into account, so for the most part it adds an element of risk and excitement.
There are a few more things that matter, but those are the big ones. Another thing is that while characters all have their strengths and weakness, they're generally versatile, with both long and short range attacks, so no one is completely useless (there are few weak units, and you very rarely have to use them). Five of them are above the rest, however; the four elemental lords after which the game is named (Masaki, your main character, is one), and a fifth one with equivalent strength.
It's a solid, fun system that actually had me stop and think about the best course of action on a regular basis, contrary to a lot of mostly mindless console SRPGs, and it remains fun because of how the flow of battle evolves throughout the game.
In the first half of the story, most battles are small-scale, creating a fast pacing, and allies rotate in and out of your party all the time. That's because there are 16 elemental heralds, or people tasked with keeping the peace of La Gias, and everyone is kind of doing their own thing; there are some you see quite often, while others I've only met on an handful of occasions. There are even on-one-on battle, and on one occasion, a tournament takes place between you and all your allies. Then later on, you get into those longer, epic battles with multiple boss characters where it's all about building up to superpowered attacks, then it switches again on you, then again, by switching to two moves per turn, and you start to acquire these incredibly powerful skills... by the end, I actually found the game easier, because there was so much you could do; theoretically, there was one character I could have had act six times in one turn if necessary (though it wouldn't have been the most advantageous move, anyway).
As for downsides, you can't turn off the battle animations. They're nice, but usually I always turn them off in any SRPG where it's possible, as it speeds things up. The good thing is attacks deals a lot of damage in general, so the flow of battle is still pretty quick, and you can move through a very large portion of the map in just one turn, so you don't have to waste a bunch of turns just moving your units towards the enemy.
I never talk much about graphics in my reviews, because anybody can look up a playthrough on youtube; suffice to say it mostly looks like a 2D PSX SRPG. The SRW series always had ugly maps and elaborate battle animations, and this time both look good. The music is solid, too, as you would expect from a SNES RPG. This is the main battle map music, which you hear constantly:
In the end I think I'll go with an 8.5. Considering I don't like SRPGs quite as much as I do action or traditional turn-based RPGs, that is a really high score. I'd even say it's in my genre top 5. I wouldn't play the five million mainline SRW games, since they seem quite different, but the game ended up getting direct sequels starting from 2012, on the PSP, PS3 & Vita, and if any of them ever got a translation, I'd definitely give them a shot.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Mar 31, 2020 15:11:53 GMT -5
Nice! Definitely a positive that this actually turned out as good as it looks. Great writeup, too. You laid out the way it works quite well, and it sounds pretty intriguing.
|
|
|
Post by Xeogred on Mar 31, 2020 15:35:39 GMT -5
This theme was a bigger success than I expected for sure. Perhaps we should do it again next year.
That said I'm not even sure I want to wait another year before I get back to FM3, or get to FM4. I keep looking up videos of FM4 and can't wait to play it. I don't want to skip FM3's Emma campaign though. I feel like if I did jump to the next game first, I might not go back to FM3 then haha.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Mar 31, 2020 15:49:02 GMT -5
Xeogred Do we have a SRPG month coming up? If not, we should schedule one. I might want to try a mainline Front Mission game again myself.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Mar 31, 2020 16:45:25 GMT -5
In the end I think I'll go with an 8.5 That might be the highest score I've seen you give on HRG since you started posting reviews here. Glad you found a game you like so much. For PSP, there is a complete English fan translation for Super Robot Taisen A Portable: The Vita versions of Super Robot Wars V and Super Robot Wars X were released by the publisher with English already included as alternative language, depending on which region you bought. I don't recall specifically which region it was, probably South Korea or Taiwan. At any rate, a while back I bought those two for my Vita collection because they are playable in English without hacking. (Plus the Vita is region free.) That said, SRWV and SRWX are also in English on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/1031500/SUPER_ROBOT_WARS_V/Perhaps we should do it again next year. I'm down for Mech Madness 2: The Maddening next year if you guys are.
Do we have a SRPG month coming up? This is the current schedule we all agreed to for 2020: January = Puzzle Games February = Game Gear March = Mech Madness April = Action-RPGs May = Mascot Platformers June = Tardy to the Party July = 8/16-bit Capcom Games August = Westerns September = Run 'n Gun October = N64 and/or Horror November = Ninjas and Samurais December = Dreamcast We previously did SRPGs as a theme back in May of 2019. Some of the themes this year are for short genres, so it wouldn't be hard to play an SRPG on the side - while also participating in Club Retro.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Mar 31, 2020 17:11:07 GMT -5
Yeah, that's probably the way to look at it. Some months will have shorter games in general, so it's not impossible to have another iron in the fire. I mean, I did a decent amount of mech stuff, and still played some modern games as well. Xeogred pulled it off as well.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Mar 31, 2020 17:17:34 GMT -5
Ex I thought we'd done a SRPG month before. It's probably too early to talk about, but I wouldn't mind doing another in 2021. At this point none of the other Masou Kishin games are in English, and I'm not interested in the mainline game as none of them are in the same style, as far as I know. If I do try a "regular" SRW, it'll be your namesake, SRW EX, as the story directly ties into that one. I don't know if I've given a higher rating in the past few years, since I used stars before and all. I did enjoy Langrisser PC and Mystara almost as much, and there are a few action games I'd rate as high, even though it's hard to compare RPGs and action games IMO. EDIT - I have to say, SRPGs have really grown on me in the past two years. I used to only really like those that had enough traditional RPG characteristics, like Shining Force, but I've really enjoyed most of those I've played relatively recently. I still prefer ARPG and "classic" RPGs, but not nearly by as wide a margin.
|
|
|
Post by Xeogred on Mar 31, 2020 18:02:04 GMT -5
Front Mission has made me want to explore SRPG's a bit more again myself. I used to keep them at bay because they can be such a time sink and they are, but what I discovered last year and now since I've played two Front Mission's, is that this genre is really easy to pace through in a busy week. Because you just do a battle or two, then can save it and put it down for the night. That chipping away adds up after awhile. It might just be me, I like to play games for a long stretch and that's not always possible some days. But this genre is easier to throw into different mixes of games or schedules.
Arc the Lad 2 Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together Front Mission 3
Those are my favorites so far. I've played and beaten probably a dozen others. I dug Shining Force 1 and could tell 2 was a big improvement in a lot of ways, but I think I tried playing them back to back so I burned out. I definitely want to give that one another shot sometime though. I'll probably gravitate towards 16/32bit SRPG's I haven't played yet before others.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Mar 31, 2020 18:16:56 GMT -5
AtL2 is probably my favorite SRPG out there. It's amazing how much of a leap it is over the still-decent AtL.
I definitely advocate taking genre breaks, though. I don't usually dive straight into another RPG when I've played a 50+ hour behemoth.
|
|