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Post by Sarge on May 26, 2020 22:54:39 GMT -5
Daxter is pretty good (I finished that one too), but I liked this a lot more.
I will warn you, it has gating via those power cells, so you have to find enough to proceed. I know that's a contrivance you don't care for, but I suppose even classics like Super Mario 64 do the same thing.
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Post by Ex on May 26, 2020 23:33:00 GMT -5
I beat the original Super Mario Bros. via its All-Stars incarnation tonight. Despite the fact as a teenager I owned a copy of All-Stars, I never bothered playing the collection. So I did not know that in the SNES version, after beating SMB1, you unlock the special "Star Course". That was an interesting addition, but I've had enough classic 2D Mario for the moment! Before tonight, the last time I beat SMB1 was on NES in 1989, when I was ten years old. So it's been over thirty years. Parts of this game came back to me quickly, others not so much. I did recall my favorite areas as a kid were the mushroom levels like this:
And as a kid, playing this game back in the '80s, SMB1 was pure magic. It's hard to express just how monumentally important SMB1 was to Nintendo and video gaming in general. This was the game that '80s kids all wanted to play and own. This game's siren call sold more NES units than all other NES games combined. SMB1 was also pretty hard when I was a kid, but it seemed a lot easier now. Well I've got decades more gaming experience under my belt to be fair. As a kid, I never beat this game without using warp pipes. Well tonight I did a straight run, no warp pipes! I wanted to be sure I saw every level. I doubt there's much I can say about SMB1 that you regulars don't already know. Maybe some of you didn't know about this: Also gotta love the SNES version's edge detection: No wonder SMB2J is so much easier in All-Stars. In its day as a kid, I'd have given SMB1 a 10/10. These days it's an 8/10 for me. Still very solid stuff. Also my run took me 1 hour 7 minutes. I was a tad rusty. - And that's gonna wrap up this theme for me folks. Before I recap the games I beat, I'll post two brief thoughts: When it comes to platformers, I much prefer action-platformers, cinematic platformers, or "metroidvania" platformers far greatly over mascot platformers. Cutesy hop 'n bop stuff just isn't something I gravitate to naturally. It's okay once in a while, but in rapid succession not so much. Don't get me wrong, I've played some amazing mascot platformers in the past. But for every great mascot platformer I've played, I've also played a dozen not-great ones. Which brings me to my next point...
In the world of mascot platformers, mainline Mario and Sonic are simply the apex. I'm talking about the central M&S entries, not offshoots. I have sampled many, many other companies' 2D and 3D mascot platformers, and the disparity in quality of the rest versus mainline M&S - man it's not even close. Sure there are exceptions, but those are the rare exceptions. In general most other companies' mascot platformers run the gamut from mediocre to bad. But if it's a mainline Mario or Sonic game, chances are it will be good to great.
Here's what I beat for this month's theme: Knuckles' Chaotix (SEGA 32X) 4/10 High Seas Havoc (Genesis) 5/10
Sonic the Hedgehog Pocket Adventure (NeoGeo Pocket Color) 8/10 Super Mario Bros. (SNES) 8/10
Super Mario Bros. 2 Japanese Version (Famicom) 6/10 While I only beat 5 games, I sampled something on the order of 30. By "sampled" I mean put 5-30 minutes in. I got pretty far in Flink and Ardy Lightfoot before throwing in the towel. Hey at least this theme got me to take one for the team with Chaotix!
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Post by Xeogred on May 27, 2020 1:19:09 GMT -5
27. Sonic the Hedgehog Pocket Adventure (NGPC) 28. Super Mario Bros 2J (NES) 29. Super Mario Bros* (NES)
I did play a little Maui Mallard in Cold Shadow today to see what the fuss was about earlier and yeah, it seems awesome. The way the character turns and camera wise it seemed a little weird though, not as smooth as Earthworm Jim. But this is indeed something I should dig more into.
I also played some DoReMi Fantasy. I remember this was one of the first localized (still untranslated) games on the Wii shop years ago and played some of it that way initially. It's been an interesting curiosity since then. Seems really well made and plays very well, but I do think after playing some more again today that I wish the "Bubble" weapon you have was just a straight up blaster/gun instead. Or they could maybe just ditch it entirely. Something about it seems a little odd, gives it a strange rhythm that doesn't totally pull me in perhaps. But I did knock out the first world.
The game sure does have some thick atmosphere and an interesting soundscape at times and I really like the graphics quite a bit.
In the world of mascot platformers, mainline Mario and Sonic are simply the apex. I'm talking about the central M&S entries, not offshoots. I have sampled many, many other companies' 2D and 3D mascot platformers, and the disparity in quality of the rest versus mainline M&S - man it's not even close. Sure there are exceptions, but those are the rare exceptions. In general most other companies' mascot platformers run the gamut from mediocre to bad. But if it's a mainline Mario or Sonic game, chances are it will be good to great.
While I think I enjoy this genre more myself, this is the issue I have with it as well. For 3D entries I'm excited to get to the Spyro (remasters) games eventually, but I just haven't been up for spending money right now to buy it. But seriously yeah, when you've played all the Mario's, Sonic's, branched out a little to the Donkey Kong's and some others, the genre really falls off fast for me. I think I'd be down to play way more similar games, if only the quality were there too. But that's not always the case.
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Post by Ex on May 27, 2020 10:27:33 GMT -5
I also played some DoReMi Fantasy. I remember this was one of the first localized (still untranslated) games on the Wii shop years ago and played some of it that way initially. It's been an interesting curiosity since then. Seems really well made and plays very well, but I do think after playing some more again today that I wish the "Bubble" weapon you have was just a straight up blaster/gun instead. Or they could maybe just ditch it entirely. Something about it seems a little odd, gives it a strange rhythm that doesn't totally pull me in perhaps. But I did knock out the first world. Earlier this month I also attempted DoReMi Fantasy. I talked about it briefly in a post where I discussed various mascot platformers I'd initially sampled for this thread: hardcoreretrogaming.boards.net/post/27702/threadI think you put more time into it then I did. My interest waned when I realized the game would take 4 hours to finish, and also incorporated collectible item gating. That said, I wouldn't say DoReMi Fantasy is a bad game or anything. It seemed decent quality for anyone who had the patience for it. Even the DKC games are on the "merely decent" end of the spectrum for me, with the exception of the very first DKC. And I'm of the mind the reason DKC1 is so good, is because of Nintendo's direct involvement during its development. Just as one example: "Upon reviewing Rare's first playable version of the game, Nintendo directed Rare to significantly reduce the difficulty because they wanted it to appeal to a broad audience and thought the game's numerous secrets would provide sufficient challenge to hardcore gamers.[16] Designer Gregg Mayles and his team arranged the stages so players with good timing could flow between obstacles without waiting.[15] At this point, Donkey Kong creator Shigeru Miyamoto – though otherwise mostly uninvolved with the project – made some last-minute suggestions, such as Donkey Kong's "hand-slap" move, that were incorporated into the final game.[16]"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Kong_Country#DevelopmentFrom all I've read concerning DKC2 and DKC3, Nintendo pretty much let Rare do whatever they wanted. I think that's really evident in DKC2.
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Post by Sarge on May 27, 2020 13:52:24 GMT -5
Ex: As far as that edge detection is concerned, I think that's just a function of the sprite redraws and the rounded corners on those blocks. The hit boxes are the same. In the original, remember that Mario has both feet out to the side, as opposed to the SMB3 look in that shot. It does look awfully wonky, though. I do agree that when it comes to platformers, no one does it better than Nintendo's Mario output. Sure, they have the occasional misfire, but more often than not, they're sublime, and often transformative. I still can't understate the joy I got from Super Mario Galaxy, which single-handedly revived my love of 3D platformers. I also agree that the earlier Sonic games are fantastic, even if I put them on a slightly lower tier. There's a ton of quality there. I should go through my list, though, because I'm sure I have a few exceptions where I think a game nearly pulls equal with Nintendo. I think perhaps the oft-mentioned Sly Cooper games (at least the first two) or the best Ratchet & Clank games approach that level. I'll have to think about a few more, though. DKC1 is sublime, and it's telling that you mention Nintendo telling them to tone down the difficulty, because the sequels don't nearly have the flow of the original, and that's easily what I love about it. You can get into a comfortable rhythm, a bit like an easier Ninja Gaiden, and it feels great.
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Post by Ex on May 27, 2020 14:23:54 GMT -5
As far as that edge detection is concerned, I think that's just a function of the sprite redraws and the rounded corners on those blocks. The hit boxes are the same. Yeah I bet the actual hit boxes are something like this: So it makes sense programmatically, but it sure looks wonky. I'll agree to that, but with the stipulation we're talking about mascot platformers specifically here. Not action-platformers, or nonlinear exploratory platformers. The original Genesis 2D Sonic games are nearly as good, and they manage to fundamentally work differently in their mechanics, and so still stand as a separate tier of magnificence on their own. Sonic wisely did not try to beat Mario at its own game, as many other inferior mascot platformer wannabes tried and failed to do. I cite this as the very best 3D platformer ever made. I would also cite that the SMG planetoid concept was used previously in Sonic Adventure 2. But Mario's game did the concept better, despite doing it later. The problem I have with Sly Cooper is it's clearly meant to be a children's game series. It's way too cutesy and kiddie for me, I just can't do it. Mario and Sonic while having cute aesthetics, are more universal in their audience approach. (I'm only talking about the 2D Sonic games here, not the later Sonics that incorporated talking alternative kiddie demographic protagonists.)
R&C might be great, but again, those R&C games look more like action-platformers than mascot-platformers. If you are running around with guns shooting enemies, as opposed to jump-bopping them, I consider that a run 'n gun. Sure R&C has platforming too, but I don't think that matters. We all consider Contra to be a run 'n gun, despite the fact there are perilous jumps in that game where you die if you miss the jump.
On this we are in full agreement.
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Post by Xeogred on May 27, 2020 17:48:27 GMT -5
I think you're undermining the platforming in R&C. It's not like it's entirely absent. It did gravity sections before Galaxy and other neat tricks. Just sounds like you clearly haven't touched them. And it's amusing to me when you defend some Nintendo stuff, Star Fox, etc, but these other franchise are too childish? I thought Sly Cooper had a cool Don Bluth edge to it. Most of that guy's work has a bit of a grimdark undertone to it, I felt that in Sly too.
Anyways yeah, it's all subjective and we're just running in circles here. You're clearly not interested in these two franchises so oh well.
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Post by Ex on May 27, 2020 20:34:40 GMT -5
Just sounds like you clearly haven't touched them. I haven't personally played any Sly Cooper or Ratchet & Clank game. I've read reviews and watched gameplay videos of games in each franchise though. I do think that Sly and R&C look especially childish, yes. But that's just my personal opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree with me on that viewpoint. Nor do I begrudge any grown adult who enjoys either franchise. I can't recall defending Star Fox Adventures. I only said I owned Star Fox Adventures, but had never played it. I'm about as interested in them as you are in King's Field and Sarge is in Ace Combat.
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Post by Sarge on May 27, 2020 20:37:38 GMT -5
I will point out that I own multiple Ace Combat games.
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Post by Xeogred on May 27, 2020 20:37:55 GMT -5
Hey now, I put a few hours in combined across all those King Field's!
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