|
Post by Sarge on Jan 13, 2023 17:12:10 GMT -5
It's actually pretty remarkable, because despite the grindiness of some of the best of that era, they still managed to stand well above their peers. DQIII/IV, FFIII, even the original Final Fantasy are exemplars of the era. I'm sure there's an 8-bit RPG out there on NES that's actually great, but I haven't given them enough time to truly find out. (For example, Chaos World and Silva Saga seem pretty good, and I've also heard good things about Double Moon Densetsu.)
And even with my gripes about Phantasy Star, it's still one of the best 8-bit RPGs out there.
|
|
|
Post by Moulinoski on Jan 13, 2023 18:39:56 GMT -5
I just remembered that earlier last year, I had played a bit of Ultima VII on PC (but also SNES because I’m a masochist). I used Exult because it’s supposed to be the best way to experience it now.
It is an interesting game. There’s a lot in it that sounds good on paper but I dislike the implementation of it. It expects the player to fumble their way into plot but then holds back on key information (it doesn’t outright hide it, it’s just cryptic). It’s an open ended adventure in which different players may end up with a different experience. It has a near fully realized world to explore. It has many NPCs whom you can strike a conversation with (although earlier Ultima games used a parser system forcing to basically text message NPCs).
Yeah, it’s a complicated game. I haven’t really scratched the surface of it. It’s also got bugs. Or maybe some of its system is super cryptic. I got stuck trying to talk to some Ewok guy. I did everything the walkthrough said to do (which I checked when I got stuck earlier at the gambling pirate island with no idea how to proceed). No dice. I was perpetually stuck with not even the walkthrough to guide me out of my predicament.
It was at that point that I had an epiphany. I don’t actually like Ultima that much. I suppose it has to do with the way I view video games: entertainment with which I can sit back and relax. Ultima expects you to hunch over a computer, read two tomes on the history of its game world, earn a master’s degree in Computer Science, forego real life food and friends in order to feed your in game friends with the in game food you scrounge up or outright steal, and forego sleep in real life so that your in game avatar can get his full ten hours of beauty sleep. So, maybe I’m exaggerating but I just found that I wasn’t having fun.
It took me back to when I played Ultima III on NES. I enjoyed it once I broke down and looked up a walkthrough from the beginning. Ultima is a walkthrough game series. If you’re not playing with a walkthrough next to you, you will get lost and end up frustrated.
So, at least for now and as of June 2022, I’m dumping Ultima VII. Im still interested in it but not as much anymore. I might try it later on or I might just mess around with the SNES port of Ultima VI… or I might just forget about Ultima altogether. I’m not shy about looking up a guide to a game I’m already invested in but I don’t think it’s fun to have to use a guide from character creation all the way to the end. Maybe I’m just not intelligent enough for Ultima? I do only have a bachelors in Computer Science after all…
|
|
|
Post by toei on Jan 13, 2023 19:10:58 GMT -5
It's actually pretty remarkable, because despite the grindiness of some of the best of that era, they still managed to stand well above their peers. DQIII/IV, FFIII, even the original Final Fantasy are exemplars of the era. I'm sure there's an 8-bit RPG out there on NES that's actually great, but I haven't given them enough time to truly find out. (For example, Chaos World and Silva Saga seem pretty good, and I've also heard good things about Double Moon Densetsu.) And even with my gripes about Phantasy Star, it's still one of the best 8-bit RPGs out there. Silva Saga is sort of decent because it's strangely fast-paced for a NES turn-based RPGs. Short dungeons, fast combat, acceptable encounter rate. If you just want to go through the motions of a NES RPG with less tediousness, it's a good candidate. I tried and dropped both Chaos World and Double Moon Densetsu, both for the same reason as all the others: millions of encounters and barely any story or adventure. FF1 is better than most others in a few ways, but I don't like it anymore. III is well above for me.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Jan 13, 2023 19:55:31 GMT -5
And even with my gripes about Phantasy Star, it's still one of THE best 8-bit RPG s out there. FTFY Ultima is a series I respect but have never enjoyed (with the exception of the Underworld games). Mechanically they were ahead of their time and offer loads of depth. But that weirdly angled isometric viewpoint the games used (aside from U9) just makes my eyes barf. I had a friend once who loved the series and he extolled their virtue to me relentlessly, so I get why people care about them.
|
|
|
Post by Moulinoski on Jan 13, 2023 23:29:26 GMT -5
And even with my gripes about Phantasy Star, it's still one of THE best 8-bit RPG s out there. FTFY Ultima is a series I respect but have never enjoyed (with the exception of the Underworld games). Mechanically they were ahead of their time and offer loads of depth. But that weirdly angled isometric viewpoint the games used (aside from U9) just makes my eyes barf. I had a friend once who loved the series and he extolled their virtue to me relentlessly, so I get why people care about them. I wanted to refute your claim about Phantasy Star being the best 8-bit RPG ever but I kept thinking about other 8-bit RPGs and… yeah, even if I feel like I prefer Final Fantasy or the GBC version of Dragon Quest III, It’s undeniable how much better Phantasy Star looks when placed next to its contemporaries and the depth of the story as well, although FF2 and DQ4 are strong contenders in that field. The only thing that I feel dampens Phantasy Star is the dungeon design and the Sega Ages version resolves that by giving you an auto map. I too dislike the weird isometric perspective but I guess people liked it enough because I remember seeing it in other computer games. There was an old MMO RPG called Tibia that looks similar to Ultima VII. But yeah, I got interested in checking out the series because of its place in the history of video game RPGs namely influencing the likes of Dragon Quest and Legend of Zelda. I really admire the technical ambition behind each game and enjoy watching the Spoony Experiment reviews on the series but actually playing them is like trying to eat a bowl of raw, unseasoned vegetables that have been left out in the sun for 50 years. It’s a crying shame that EA and Richard Garriot can’t get together to remake the series from the beginning, ideally with Garriot was giving his blessings and characters and EA giving it to some studio that actually cares about what they’re doing. Remake it with modern game design sensibilities and include a bonus “1981 mode” for those who want to see how the game was originally like. I’m sure Ultima can be _fun to play_ if only some of kinks can be worked out. Giving the player and option to tailor their experience helps too.
|
|