|
Post by toei on Apr 18, 2024 13:57:57 GMT -5
Honest question. I thought I'd ask since I'm one of the only ones here who plays almost no modern games. When I visit other gaming spaces, I'm surprised by how fussy and weak gamers can be in their complaints about games. My basic attitude when I play a game is that if it's not clicking with me, but I have some interest in it, I'll try to find out if I'm missing something. Am I grasping the mechanics? Have I missed some entirely? Do I get the flow of the game? If the controls are different from what I'm used to, I'll try and see if I can get used to them. Basically, I'll put in a little effort, because oftentimes that effort is rewarded (a basic principle of life).
But many "regular", modern gamers will dismiss a game or call it horrible for the smallest, dumbest things. I remember someone online years back saying he wouldn't play some RPG or other because you had to hold R to run. That was literally it.
My real inspiration for this is visiting gamefaqs and occasionally clicking on some of the threads from the forums that show up on the frontpage, and they're always like this. Excerpt from a post:
"Absolutely love the core of this game (...) but there are times when the endless sea of terrible design choices really drag it down.
When you first play it and realize you have to keep pressing A to advance the conversation after every single sentence every single NPC says to you for the entire game...
Inability to just view the stats on a piece of equipment when you view it at a vendor (only shows you the difference it will make if you equip it and remove your old item) - makes finding out what the stats of an item are unnecessarily tedious.
(...)"
Some of the things he lists might be more legit complaints. But pressing A to advance conversations, the most normal thing in RPGs ever, is a big deal and "terrible design choice"? Seeing the difference between the equipment you're buying and the one you have equipped, but not the neutral stats, right from the shop screen, is a problem? What is this guy talking about? This is a random post I'm using as an example, but it's literally always like this. Most of the complaints I see are some quibbly bullshit.
Is it just me being intolerant? Dudes is soft to me.
Discuss.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Apr 18, 2024 15:22:55 GMT -5
It's not just you. Although I think there's more going on at times than just dinging a game for design choices and whatnot. Instead, I feel like there's a dogpile mentality with some games, and folks just lose their minds in the mob mentality. And that doesn't factor in what happens if a game ends up dragged for political/cultural reasons - then you'll find folks that will nitpick every single little thing about the game because they want to justify their hatred for other reasons. I don't have to agree with everything in my video games! Granted, some idea/plotlines will certainly decrease my enjoyment of them... but I'm a grown adult. I can handle it, or move on without losing my mind.
|
|
|
Post by Xeogred on Apr 18, 2024 19:02:13 GMT -5
That type of crowd that can't even be bothered to push or hold a button to walk, talk, or navigate menus, etc yeah, they're the lowest of the low. Lot of impatient entitled gamers thesedays and they're probably the ones that will say the PS3/360 is ancient history. I get even more weirded out about that with anime fans, some that can't watch stuff that's like merely 5 years old. WTF. Anyone who thinks the age of a piece of entertainment completely dictates its level of quality, must be some of the most boring people walking the planet.
I've certainly seen some lame comments and stuff like that, especially around the Souls games. One of the weirdest takes I heard recently somewhere was how someone can't enjoy the Souls games because of how the NPC dialogue works or something. Because you can move around, attack, do whatever while they talk to you. I guess because it's not some Uncharted style cutscene or an awkward Bethesda styled ZOOM in thing locking you into a dialogue menu, etc, they can't simply listen to words? I have no idea. I think this person was also using this element as an argument against the "quality" of these games too. Like it's too hard for FromSoftware to animate faces more. Who freaking gives a flip, it's just the style of game they are with them focusing WAY more on other aspects. Who am I kidding though, the people that value "performances" over actual gameplay and other aspects of a games design, those don't align with my primary focus and values on gaming. It's the other way around for me tenfold. If the MGS games sucked, I wouldn't care at all about how good David Hayter was back on those.
I don't think I deal with these low brow takes much on podcasts that I frequent though, so that's good. But yeah general internet wise, I don't engage much with comments sections or other places much at all thesedays.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Apr 18, 2024 20:46:28 GMT -5
toei I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a minute here, not a suit I normally wear. So, everybody has their own personal peeves. I mean dude, you won't play first person shooters at all, from what I've observed. I think that's limiting for your gaming, because there are some amazing first person shooters out there; some even incorporate RPG mechanics you'd enjoy. There are even first person story-driven beat 'em ups! But far as I know, you have this blanket "no first person action" policy. Also, you seem to have a "I don't play games newer than 6th gen" policy going on. So in that regard, is it fair to disparage a gamer who doesn't like RPGs wherein you have to hold a button down the entire time to run, because the protagonist's walking speed is ludicrously slow? I literally dropped an RPG one time, because the protagonist's footstep sound effects were extremely annoying. We all have our pet peeves. That devil's advocate crud out of the way, I do have issues with some modern gamer complaints. The one that annoys me the most is people saying they won't play games that aren't 60fps. Like 30fps games are just trash now. Man I used to have loads of fun with PS1 games running 15-20fps. Or that latency caused by any factor somehow ruins a game and makes it unplayable, despite the fact that one can quickly adapt to latency. Or the whole thing where if a game is from a prior generation, it's now a dusty artifact not even worth considering playing. If I were to put on my elitist asshat (yes it fits well as I've worn it many times), my big complaint with gamers in general, is they don't rely on themselves enough. Too many players immediately reach for a strategy guide, walkthrough, or playthrough video, as soon as they hit any resistance in a game. Or doggedly follow a guide while playing because "I'm afraid of missing anything" and so are fine with the game being spoiled for them instead. Or choose Easy difficulty by default, because the idea of having to actually put any effort into a game is abhorrent. Completely missing how by challenging oneself to get better at gaming, one's skill grows (in reflexes or puzzle solving) and eventually Easy wouldn't be needed in the first place. I want people to be better gamers; play on Normal at least, and leave guides alone unless absolutely necessary, and then only for that one part they're absolutely stuck on. Overcoming any kind of difficulty builds character; self-reliance is next to godliness. /elitistasshatoff
|
|
|
Post by toei on Apr 18, 2024 21:00:24 GMT -5
I've tried first-person shooters plenty of time. Even played a little Doom last year. I just don't enjoy them. I don't think melee feels right at all in first-person either (unless it's something like Punch-Out), it completely changes the dynamic. I still have God Hand on my long list of games to try. I don't think not liking a genre and passing on a game you'd be otherwise interested in just because you have to hold a button to run are similar at all. I have no policy about not playing more recent games either. I just don't have the setup for it, and I'd rather play all the older stuff first for the most part. But there are PS3 and PS4 games on my list. We've talked about this recently. I've beaten some new indie games too.
|
|
|
Post by Xeogred on Apr 18, 2024 21:04:59 GMT -5
That devil's advocate crud out of the way, I do have issues with some modern gamer complaints. The one that annoys me the most is people saying they won't play games that aren't 60fps. Like 30fps games are just trash now. Man I used to have loads of fun with PS1 games running 15-20fps. Or that latency caused by any factor somehow ruins a game and makes it unplayable, despite the fact that one can quickly adapt to latency. Or the whole thing where if a game is from a prior generation, it's now a dusty artifact not even worth considering playing. Yeah haha. I certainly have more preferences on this nowadays, when the hardware and game can be optimized well. But I can level my expectations when I go backwards to play older games and don't fret the framerates too much. There could be some extreme examples, like getting through Goldeneye on the N64 in 2024 might be asking a lot of people more than before now haha. But I just played all the King's Field games, Shadow Tower, etc... one can adjust with enough fortitude and interest.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Apr 18, 2024 21:05:46 GMT -5
I don't think melee feels right at all in first-person either It's too bad this is still Xbox exclusive only (and not on PS2 also) because this does first person melee well: It's also hard as balls and I failed to beat it back in 2007. Still need to rectify that. Looking forward to you playing some PS4 games someday. one can adjust with enough fortitude and interest It's the interest that does it. Back last year when I was playing a bunch of Atari 2600 stuff, at first they felt far too primitive to enjoy. But after a while my brain accepted it, and I started having plenty of fun with the blockiest pixels out there. Some people are what we used to call "graphics whores" and really are only in the hobby for the latest sexy tech. Fair enough but they aren't "real" gamers to me.
|
|
|
Post by Xeogred on Apr 18, 2024 21:09:06 GMT -5
I was actually going to randomly suggest Skyrim for toei. Could probably get it for a few bucks on some Steam sales at this point. The combat was the best part of the game to me, lol. Melee/magic/archery all felt great. I absolutely hated Morrowind/Oblivion's combat mechanics (they had more dice rolls under the hood so you could "miss" hits you clearly hit visually, that's what really peeved me).
Was kind of amazing how good the swords felt in Cyberpunk too when I played that last year. The katanas were some of my primary weapons.
Naturally though yeah, I'll favor third person for melee focused games.
|
|
|
Post by Sarge on Apr 18, 2024 22:29:19 GMT -5
I was going to recommend Breakdown, and yeah, hard as all get-outs. I actually kind of cheated at the end and used someone else's save at a lower difficulty (I think?) to clear that one terrible spot. It's all pretty fuzzy, but you know I was frustrated if I went down that path. I have a feeling I could pull it off now... but I think I'll let sleeping dogs lie, haha.
I do think genre preferences are a different thing. I have my own genres that I don't care for, especially RTSs and MMORPGs. Just not my cup of tea, despite trying them and generally bouncing off. I think I'd probably enjoy the 4X strategy genre a lot, but I also tend to not stick with them. It definitely stirs something in my brain, but it may just be in that way many older WRPGs also stir it and I desperately want to like it, but just don't have the attention span or something. Dunno.
Guides have always been a thing, although I suppose there's probably an argument that games were a bit more obtuse in our generation, and often were intentionally designed in a way to force players to share tactics and tips. There is a cadre of ultra-tough games now, too, but most games aren't terribly obtuse... which is probably why many start reaching for the guides when they do encounter one. And I'm certainly guilty at times - there's an element of "I don't have time for this bullcrap" that can sneak in when I don't want to expend my limited hours poking at every nook and cranny. But many games are definitely better experienced blind.
|
|
|
Post by Ex on Apr 19, 2024 10:07:38 GMT -5
I was actually going to randomly suggest Skyrim for toei. Thanks for reminding me that games exists. I still need to give Skyrim a try. I played Morrowind for a bit, enjoyed its aesthetics, but its combat and gameplay didn't hold my attention. I also tried Oblivion out, did not like its aesthetics as much (so much bloom), and fell off of it as well (don't remember exactly why). Both of those attempts were many years ago. But Skyrim was the entry that even casual gamers loved, so it's probably safe to say Bethesda got the gameplay polished out with that one. I've got it on PS4. (Also, Skyrim is now 12 years old... it's already retro by this board's standards.) I actually kind of cheated at the end and used someone else's save at a lower difficulty >I have my own genres that I don't care for, especially RTSs and MMORPGs I can't condone disregarding entire genres completely, when there's always a chance there will be exceptions within those genres, that still appeal to someone who isn't usually a fan of said genres. I also think disregarding entire genres boxes in the growth of a gamer, and harms their potential enjoyment of this medium in totality. And there's so much variation within a genre as well. DOOM, Half-Life, Deus Ex, System Shock, and Titanfall 2 are all considered "first person shooters", yet all of those games are wildly different from each other in core design. There have been genres I didn't enjoy when I was younger, but as I got older I grew to like them after all. RTS is an example for me. Never much cared for that genre, it's still not a favorite, but I didn't let that stop me from trying out Heroes of Mana on DS back in 2020. And I ended up loving that game. If I'd stubbornly clung to my "I'm not an RTS guy" notion, I would have deprived myself of that great experience. >Guides have always been a thing Even when I was a kid, I'm talking about being a kid in the '80s, I thought strategy guides and walkthroughs were cheating. I knew kids in elementary school, and middle school, who used cheat codes and guides from magazines they bought from stores to beat games. But I was able to beat those same games without having access to that stuff. Maybe I would have used that stuff if I'd had access to it, but because I didn't, I had to become a better gamer instead, and overcome those difficult games via my own conviction and skill. To be clear my point here is not "I'm an amazing gamer" but rather I think anyone can become an amazing gamer. Necessity is the mother of improvement. And shouldn't one of the goals of a gamer be to improve one's gaming skill? >I'm certainly guilty at times - there's an element of "I don't have time for this bullcrap" that can sneak in And I'll grant there are exceptions sometimes. The most often for me in the past, has been while playing adventure games with irrationally obtuse puzzle solutions. Where the leaps of logic to solve the puzzle are so byzantine, that the player is wrongfully subjected to a level of "try everything on everything" sadism that's on the order of absurd. Everyone's brain works differently from another person, when it comes to puzzle logic at least, so the player can't be expected to think the way a designer did 100% of the time. Anyone who has played old adventure games knows what I'm talking about here, so I rest my case.
|
|