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Post by toei on Feb 19, 2019 20:34:50 GMT -5
Hey all, I've been playing shmups lately, and I've got a bunch of them lined up to try, so this is the thread where I'm gonna be talking about them. Kind of like dunpeal2064 's PC-98 thread (remember dunpeal? and his PC-98 thread? good stuff). This is gonna be part first impressions, part gaming diary, and hopefully, it'll be interesting to someone besides me. Today, I've been messing with Kiaidan 00. What the hell is Kiaidian 00? One of the more obscure PCE-CD shoot-'em-ups, developed in collaboration between Riot and a company called AlfaSystems, who'd eventually be responsible for the Castle Shikigami series of vertical shooters. Even then, they had a thing for shooters; other releases of theirs around that time include the two Down Load games, Sinistron and Psychic Storm (they also had a relationship with Telenet, who they'd sometimes work with). In this game, you control a giant mecha, fighting other large robots, some of which are kaiju-inspired. There are two twists on the standard shooter formula (hori, in this case) - one, you have access to five weapons at all times, and there are no power-ups. Stop firing and you begin charging a powerful shot, which of course depends on your current weapon. Aside from that standard stuff, notable weapons include a very short-range weapon that hits ahead and behind continuously, and a chain that spins around you. The special attack for that one extends it into a long chain that you can move around to hit anything around you, a bit like Belmont's whip in Castlevania IV, as long as you hold the attack button. It's very powerful, but it does have a weakness; since your D-Pad moves the change, you have to release it to move yourself. The other gimmick is a UI taking up a bit of the screen at the bottom. There's a basic map showing how close you are to the level's boss (and the midboss, which is usually close to the halfway point), and there's the gauge showing your weapons, health and charging gauge. Interestingly, you can see the bosses's health, too, and their own power-up gauge; each of them has a more dangerous attack they can use once fully-charged. The game is hard, mostly because the levels are so long. You can take a few hits before you die, but after that you have to re-do the whole level, which is especially annoying since they're unusually long. If I don't finish this one, this'll be why. The bosses aren't hard so far, though (I've made it to the end of Level 3, which is about halfway through). Still, though, it's not a bad game. Maybe a bit too oriented towards memorization; it often seems like you don't have time to change weapons when it's appropriate. Of course, since Telenet was involved, there's an anime influence. Beyond the cutscenes, there's a short convo before every boss fight, and when you deplete a boss' health, you actually have to use a powered-up shot with your basic weapon to finish them up, which your female companion will remind you to do. I'm betting the Cosmic Fantasy guy was involved with the anime cutscenes, cause the main character looks just like Van from CF2. (I was aiming for short write-ups with this thread, hopefully that will be the case with later posts).
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Post by Xeogred on Feb 19, 2019 21:10:47 GMT -5
This will be fun to follow.
Since we had that Natsume month awhile ago, did you ever get around to S.C.A.T.? I had a blast with that one.
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Post by toei on Feb 19, 2019 21:44:45 GMT -5
I played it for a while, but I had the same problem with it - the levels were just too long. I hated having to re-do the entirety of the 3rd level after getting killed by the boss. It's probably a better game than Kiaidan 00, though, which I think I'm gonna put aside. I might give it another shot someday (SCAT), but probably not before playing Battle Mania 2, since it honestly seems much better.
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Post by Ex on Feb 19, 2019 22:38:33 GMT -5
I like this idea toei , although the Member Article Submission board might be a better fit. I say that because of the diary aspect, could lead into some creative writing. It's your call though. Anyway, looking forward to seeing what you play. If you are interested in some initial suggestions beyond the immediately obvious stuff: 19XX (Arcade) Astro Warrior (Master System)
Bio-Hazard Battle (Genesis) Chikyuu Kaihou Gun ZAS (Game Boy)
Crisis Force (Famicom) Einhänder (PlayStation)
Fantasy Zone II (Master System) Harmful Park (PlayStation)
In The Hunt (Arcade)
U.N. Squadron (Super Nintendo)
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Post by dunpeal2064 on Feb 20, 2019 4:01:45 GMT -5
Already in love with this thread.
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Post by toei on Feb 20, 2019 12:33:28 GMT -5
After putting down Kiaidan 00, which isn't fun or intense enough to put up with its stupidly long levels, I decided to check out other AlfaSystems shooters to see if the games they made without Telenet's involvement might be better. I started with Download, a PCE Japanese exclusive. A few things: -This is my much more my aesthetic. Rather than some generic spaceship or mecha, you begin the game as a guy on a hoverbike, speeding through a slightly futuristic city area. That alone looks cooler than almost any other PCE game I've played. Bosses and enemies have some great designs, too (which get really creative as you get further in), as do the characters shown during the anime-inspired cutscenes, and the music pumps you up as it should. -Even if you've never played this game, you might have come across screenshots of it before. It's that game with all the English swearing on its Continue screens. I can not fuck up for this! Shit, is not this a great beginning! I had similar thoughts as I played it, minus the Engrish, because... -Now this is a hardcore shoot-'em-up. Lots of enemies, lots of bullets, lots of speed. The first level alone is more intense that most of the other 8/16-bit console shmups I've played so far. You can take a few hits before you die, you have infinite continues, you even get passwords, and it's still really hard. Sometimes you can just barely see what's going on, and the left side of the screen isn't a safe spot, because enemies can appear from anywhere. You have to be completely focused at all times to play this. Rather than checkpoints, each level is divided into subsections, many (all?) end with some kind of boss battle. In the time I played it last night, I made it to the 2-1 boss; I'd already had two proper bosses (1-1 and 1-3) and a mini-boss fight by then. Before each level, you choose a main weapon and a subweapon; the subweapon has limited ammo, which you can restore with pickups, while the main weapon is powered up the same way, and both can be fired or used at once. You weapon gradually regresses as you take hits, though, and the base form is really weak. I stuck with the default weapons; at straight shot that picks up diagonal and horizontal shots as it levels up, and some homing missiles. Dying means restarting from the current sublevel with no power-ups, which often requires using your subweapon a lot until you can grab a power-up (which are thankfully quite common, at least so far), so it's harder than just making it there from the beginning of the whole level sometimes. -A lot of care was put into the level design. Rather than just expenses of space and enemy waves, you have to deal with various obstacles and use strategy to make it past cleverly-placed enemies. Most of the bosses, too, need to be taken apart piece-by-piece, and their attack patterns change as you do. The 2-1 boss actually turns into three when you think you've got it beat, turning the fight up a notch or two. Right now I am creating a list of all the shmups I plan to dedicate myself to and finish (this will also be the purpose of this thread). Download (PC Engine) is going on my list. Kiaidan 00 (PC Engine CD) is not going on my list.
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Post by dunpeal2064 on Feb 20, 2019 12:49:23 GMT -5
I thought Download was a pretty neat game as well. It gets rather hectic, a little much for my taste at times, but I liked that it kinda felt like a hybrid between the R-Type memorizer and a more shoot-y game.
I agree that Kiaiden 00 is a bit of a let-down. When I dug through the PCE stuff, I ended up coming away thinking that the Hu-Card games are generally decent-to-great, but a lot of the CD games felt like they valued style over substance, so to say. There's still some goodies in there, but the majority were a bit underwhelming to me.
That said, Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire is an absolute must on the system. Probably goes without saying nowadays, but its shocking how good the game looks and plays, could easily pass as a ps1 shooter imo. The actual gameplay is quite solid too, even implementing a scoring system beyond "Kill things, get powerups".
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Post by Ex on Feb 20, 2019 12:55:59 GMT -5
I ended up coming away thinking that the Hu-Card games are generally decent-to-great While we're on that subject, I want to strongly recommend to toei : The TG16/PCE/TGCD/PCECD cumulatively is an absolute paradise for shmup fans.
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Post by toei on Feb 20, 2019 19:07:01 GMT -5
Regarding recommendations, I should mention again that I don't like space or military shooters much. They tend to look and feel too samey, and since there are some many shooters out there, I'd rather focus on shmups with more unusual settings. Of course, that might change at some point in the future. I might make an exception if a game has a gimmick or weapon system I like enough, though. Blazing Lazers is still on my list since I liked the Compile games I've played so far, and so is Sapphire.
That being said, I did spend some time with 3 space shooters today, all of them vertical, all of them for the Genesis.
Arrow Flash was named after its gimmick; an attack where you turn into an indestructible arrow of light for a few seconds, destroying everything you touch. You can choose to stock unique uses or charge it up instead in the Options menu. It might seem like charging would be better, but it seems to last longer when you use the Stock option, and you get plenty of them, so it seems preferable. Other than that, it's a very ordinary - and mediocre - space shooter. Enemy bullets are too fast for your ship unless you grab at least two speed power-ups, and weirdly enough, basic enemies can fire in any direction (which you can't, of course), so even though there are rarely more than a few bullets on screen, you still end up dying a lot (unless you learn to spam the Arrow Flash, I guess). I don't mind memorization when it's mixed with a more action-y feel, but when it's all memorization... Like Kiaidan 00, the levels are long and uneventful, with dead air between each and every enemy wave. The game was made by an obscure company named ITL, which did a lot of work for Taito.
Heavy Unit Mega Drive Special is a "remixed" port of a 1988 Kaneko arcade game. It's weird; you start as this incredibly underpowered ship that moves like a slug in molasses - much slower than Arrow Flash's, in fact - but if you can grab a few power-ups, you turn into a huge mecha with homing shots on top of the standard attack and a shield that can take a bunch of hits. In that form, I was able to blaze through to Level 3 on my first try... then I died when some giant worm crashed into me, and I realized it was nearly impossible to do anything in the ship's basic form. It almost seems as if the game was designed to be completed on one life. Of course, the mecha is enormous, so it's not equipped to avoid anything; if you change into it and don't immediately get a shield, you are 100% dead. It's not a competent game technically; when a level starts, enemies can appear and start shooting before the screen even loads, so you have to learn to hold the fire button in the meantime - you might kill 4-5 enemies while the screen is still black. It's also inconsistent about walls and floors - some of them you can rub against without taking damage, some of them kill you, and it's not obvious why. Finally, there's no hint to let you know that you're hurting bosses or larger enemies - they don't flash, they don't make a special sound. You just know you were hitting the right spot when they explode.
Whip Rush (Vic Tokai) is better; the action is responsive, there's some nice parallax scrolling, the weapons feel good to use. Like in Thunder Force, you can increase or decrease your movement speed manually, but there are underwater parts where you can't. There's nothing really special about it, though - it looks and plays like a ton of other shooters. The closest thing it has to a hook is that you can get the little satellites that fly above and below you, but instead of just firing, you can also send them flying up or down with the C button, ramming into enemies. Level 3 has some pretty creative, backwards cave exploration, but it's also pretty annoying. Still, this does seem like a decent game. Maybe one day I'll get back to it, but for now... Arrow Flash, Heavy Unit - Mega Drive Special and Whip Rush are not going on my list.
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Post by Ex on Feb 20, 2019 22:28:04 GMT -5
Regarding recommendations, I should mention again that I don't like space or military shooters much. All the same, don't sleep on Soldier Blade or Crisis Force. Top tier stuff man. I really think you'd enjoy Bio-Hazard Battle on Genesis. Here's a couple screenshots:
Music's pretty intense too, a track:
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