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Post by Sarge on Oct 3, 2022 10:33:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand comparing Sands of Time to Ico, though. To me those two are rather different in terms of game design and especially tone. From a technical perspective, sure PoP:SoT is certainly more impressive. But keep in mind that Ico started out as a late gen PS1 project, and ended up being an early PS2 release in 2001. SoT released in 2003, so Ubisoft Montreal had two more years of learning to engineer for the PS2 at that point. While they certainly differ in tone, they're still very much in the same genre - inspired by the original Prince of Persia and containing a mix of puzzling and platforming. In context, yes, Ico is fine, but I'm playing it with a lot more intervening years in between, and it's impossible to ignore how much smoother that genre has gotten. I will note that I finally got around to hooking a PS2 back into my CRT, and woooooow does it make a difference. Most PS2 still looks fine on my LCD, but the stuff they're doing with Ico makes it look like trash, and I would assume that's the same issue when running at native resolution on the Deck. I'm very seriously considering moving over my save and continuing on real hardware - it looks fine at 2X on the Deck, but it's clearly been optimized for a CRT.
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Post by Ex on Oct 3, 2022 10:50:23 GMT -5
From a bird's eye view I can see how Ico and Sands of Time are in the same genre (action-adventure). And I have read in interviews that Fumito Ueda took some inspiration from western cinematic platformers (including Out of this World and Prince of Persia) so I can see where you are coming from.
However, going into Ico hoping for a Sands of Time competitor is missing the point. Ico is much more focused on puzzle solving, with bare bones combat and simple platforming. Sands of Time is the inverse, it focuses on complex (parkour) platforming, deeper combat, and simple puzzle solving. This is all to say, Ueda wasn't trying to make an action-adventure, so much as a puzzle-adventure. And then there's the whole constant Yorda escort aspect which is unique from PoP.
Anyway, I think it behooves the player to take Ico on its own merits, as why it's a special game becomes more clear the further in you get. It's about 8 hours long (if not using a guide) so at 3 hours in you're almost halfway. I'm glad you got Ico running on a CRT and it looks correct now. Hopefully that'll make it more enjoyable for you.
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Post by Xeogred on Oct 3, 2022 19:04:55 GMT -5
I think Ueda even namedropped the best cinematic platformer of them all, Flashback, somewhere.
Ico took me 5h 37m, but I think the in game timer stops when pausing and maybe during cutscenes. Was an easy breeze over a weekend. What I haven't revealed is that I played it in the midst of a weird LDR breakup situation, so it just magnified the emotions of the game x10. It's funny in retrospect. Probably the worst game EVER to play in that scenario. But I loved it.
Still unsure if I like Ico more or Shadow of the Colossus. The remake of SoTC was excellent.
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Post by Ex on Oct 11, 2022 11:13:56 GMT -5
Sarge are you still playing Ico any?
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Post by Sarge on Oct 11, 2022 11:42:39 GMT -5
Yeah, a bit, although I haven't really been gaming much the last few days. About 3.5 hours in. I do plan to finish it up.
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Post by Sarge on Oct 21, 2022 22:56:22 GMT -5
A little further in Ico, around five hours. I figure I'm edging closer to the end - I'm in the West Tower now. Also, I finally actually moved my save over to the real PS2. It doesn't always look better there, but when it does, it does.
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Post by Ex on Oct 22, 2022 9:59:39 GMT -5
Glad to see you edging towards finishing Ico Sarge. I didn't expect Icos puzzles to give you much resistance. There was only one puzzle that threw me for a minute. It had to do with a depth perception misunderstanding on my behalf. Something about you had to reach down into a hole in the ground and grab something, but I thought it was too deep for the character to grab. Something like that, it's been 15 years so I'm a little fuzzy.
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Post by Sarge on Oct 22, 2022 11:45:17 GMT -5
Yeah, there have been a few instances where I'm like, wow, that wasn't communicated well at all.
Also, long jumps where Yorda almost plummets to her doom and the boy catches her give me anxiety, even if it is a pre-canned animation. Yikes! (And also well done on their part.)
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Post by Sarge on Oct 22, 2022 14:07:16 GMT -5
And Ico is done. I'm honestly not sure what to think. As DF Retro points out, they were doing things with lighting that really hadn't been seen to that point that we take for granted now, so as a technical showpiece it's impressive. I still find the controls all sorts of unreliable, which dampen the experience quite a bit. Puzzle just take a little trial and error, generally nothing too difficult. Really, it does line up with what you see from Shadow of the Colossus later - a bit janky but impressive as an experience. However... I liked SotC a lot more. To be honest, escorting Yorda around was quite stressful. You never knew if you were really on a timer or not when you had to leave her behind, so sometimes you'd have to redo sections because you couldn't get them done fast enough before she got captured. Combat never felt tight, either, and again, that makes sense from the protagonist but also just doesn't feel great to play. Also, despite the visual splendor, the graphics can get very muddy. Several areas have heavy fog and mist, and even on a CRT, it can be really tough reading the screen. It sets an awesome mood, of course, but just a tiny bit of pop would have been appreciated. I know all this sounds really down on the game, but I still think it's good. I just think over 20 years of time have dulled its initial impact. And I might feel the exact same way about SotC if I were to replay it again today. Some games are timeless, and some were "you had to be there" games, and I feel this lands more in the latter than the former. I don't regret dropping the six-ish hours into it, though. I'll give it a 7/10, and for some people, they'll enjoy it a lot more than I did. EDIT: Also, dang, after years of finishing 100+ games (granted, a lot were shorter), I'm not going get close this year. This was my 39th beat.
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Post by Xeogred on Oct 22, 2022 14:49:15 GMT -5
Yeah a little surprised about the lukewarm reception haha. Glad I played the PS3 version, I had no issues with it there and thought it held up visually really well. Had a lot of fun with the Colossus remake myself but I think I like them both equally. Bottom line, I'd probably give both a solid 8. And an extra big pat on the back for inspiring Hidetaka Miyazaki.
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